(Untitled)
I wrote up and never quite completed a longish bit of due South language/communication meta/musing, and think I'm not going to a) finish all the trains of thought I started, and/or b) find my point, so instead I'm going to post it. I love the internets.
(What I wrote ended up very Kowalski and F/K-centric. Shocking.)
( Do you hear what I hear? )
(What I wrote ended up very Kowalski and F/K-centric. Shocking.)
( Do you hear what I hear? )
And now, (a little more) coherently:
I love the language of the show. All the puns and plays and malapropisms. And Ray's use of 'queer'. I was having a really interesting talk with matsudeko about how the language differences in the Japanese dubbing of the show works.
I think a lot of the Canadian/American interaction, and the humour that arises from it, is based on language. Turnbull's and Fraser's too-literal take on things enforce the Canada-as-logical/America-as-illogical stereotype, and Fraser's verbosity when compared with Ray's malapropisms go with the whole Canada=too clever/America=too dumb idea.
Then, like china_shop mentioned, there's that bit when Ray is trying to teach Fraser more colloquial language, and he calls them 'houseboys'.
In slashy (or just plain, good-ol'-buddies F/K relationship) terms, I suppose there's a lot about Ray's idea of linguistic (and therefore intellectual) inferiority next to Fraser, like you said: alternately or simultaneously comes off as truculent and stubbornly inarticulate and insecure and wanting connection/communication with Fraser.
Which is just a lovely little bundle of F/K love-with-bruises and I want to squish him (ME TOO!)
I suppose that as the dS fannish community is largely fanfic-orientated (as far as I can tell), we tend to focus on the importance of the language of the show; the character's vocabulary and also their style of speaking. There was one really awesome meta I saw the about Kowalski's manner of talking, all his repetitions and so on.
OK, I'm sorry to have rumbled rubbish all over your nice entry! How're you? <3
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Oh, I would be very curious to hear about how the Japanese dubbing altered the show and the show's word play.
*nodsnods* Too a certain extent I take it for granted; it's just how the show IS. And then I compare it to other shows, and wow. DS is obsessed with language.
It is interesting to contrast how fraught Ray's relationship with language is compared to when the situation is somewhat reversed and he's teaching Fraser. Fraser does not angst over his colloquialism failures at all, and seems to resist using slang correctly. There's no way somebody that good with language is really so bad at slang.
Absolutely on fanfic focusing our interest on how they speak and what it means. I want their voices, I do.
I'm good! I'm making cupcakes for M2's birthday and letting the internet eat my brain (padlock! Where is the padlock!) and utterly failing to write fic. How're you?
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There are two fairly distinct styles of speech in Japanese. The first is called the 'desu/masu' style, because the verbs all end in 'masu', and the verb 'to be' is desu. This is all formal and generally used when you talk to superiors, teachers, respected people or just people you don't know. The second is called the 'da' style, because the verb 'to be' is da. It's a lot less formal, and used with friends, inferiors, or people you want to piss off.
OK so far?
On top of that, you've got several different pronouns for 'you' (like you do in French or Spanish or old English), and also 'I'. For 'you', there's anata, which is neutral, kimi, which is informal and is (generally) used to kids and people you're close to, like lovers, and then there's omae, which is very informal, quite rough/vulgar and only used by men (or very 'uncouth' women) to, generally, other men. Think of anata as the French vous, kimi as the French tu, and omae as another step down from that.
Then for 'I', there’s watashi, which is neutral, boku, which is generally used by young boys or men who are being polite and nice, and ore, which is rougher, but fairly normal for (especially young) men to use, especially in masculine environments (like the Chicago PD…)
Are you alright with all that? So, there’s two different spoken styles, three different first-person pronouns, and three different second-person pronouns (there are more, but they’re the important ones…)
So, Fraser uses the ‘desu/masu’ style of talking to everyone, which makes him very polite. Ray (Vecchio, they only have the first two seasons dubbed) uses the ‘da’ style, which makes him all abrupt.
Fraser uses boku as ‘I’, which makes him sound very cute and not terribly manly, especially since Ray uses ore, which is very manly. It’s basically the linguistic equivalent of drinking beer, belching and talking about football in public.
Now Ray calls Fraser omae, which is probably what he does to all his buddies, and makes their relationship seem all manly and back-slapping. But Fraser calls Ray kimi, which makes it seem like their little kids playing together, or lovers (!). In any case, Fraser’s language is a lot more formal in its use of vocabulary and style, but more intimate in its use of pronouns. Ray’s is informal and more manly/not intimate.
Fuck, I wrote a lot. Sorry!
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More info on Japanese pronouns here
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The whole Fraser/Ray language relationship seems much deeper than I'd thought. So interesting. Maybe Fraser's just been brought up to speak more formally, and it goes against his normal way of doing things; he's more comfortable being a little bit of an outsider, in terms of language, than completely blending in?
And I'm good! I didn't do anything for Valentine's Day (bah!), but I got a virtual rose from someone or other (how lovely!) and I got my C6DVD card ( OHMYGODHAVEYOUSEENIT?!?!?!), so all is well! Tomorrow I plan to take the afternoon off to sit in cafes and be bohemian. And also I might donate some blood.
<3
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And I have seen your valentine and it made me grin like a fool. Adorable!
(Maybe thinky stuff later, if my think is working.)
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