Comments | secretsolitaire: Please enlighten me?

secretsolitaire

Please enlighten me?

Jul 18, 2008 22:35

QaF folks, I have a question. It's about episode 308, the first scene in Brian's office, when Brian is all "I don't want to see your face every day when I come in to work because I totally still love you" and Justin is all eyelash-batting, "I had no idea our former relationship was still a problem for you" innocence.

( Clip is here if anyone would like a refresher ;-) )

queer as folk, meta

Comments 54

juice817 July 19 2008, 02:41:03 UTC

I've always thought that Justin expected special treatment without knowing he was, if that makes sense. He went into things with the entitlement of a teenager, and Brian nearly always gave in to him. *shrug*

secretsolitaire July 19 2008, 16:37:45 UTC

Hmm, I think that's a pretty good description of their dynamic in season one. Justin had full confidence that he could change Brian and make Brian love him through sheer persistence, and in many ways he was right.

I think that dynamic changed significantly in season two after the bashing, and by that point I'm not sure whether Justin was expecting things from Brian at that point or just wanting things with little hope of actually getting them.

In any case I have to think about this some more. It's been fascinating to see how many different ways people read this scene!

kari77 July 19 2008, 03:06:53 UTC

Interesting question.
but from where I'm sitting Justin did expect special treatment from Brian -- he wanted and expected to be treated as more than a trick, as someone special in Brian's life. Of course he had a right to want and expect these things, and perhaps in a normal relationship that wouldn't be considered "special treatment" -- so, hmmm, is that what he's saying?
I'd go with this one, because, as you said, we know that Justin expected to be treated differently (and rightfully so) from all the other people Brian slept with. And he wanted Brian to acknowledge their relationship, and not only in the subtle ways Brian used to do it and which Justin was too frustrated to read anymore in the end.

OR, is he saying he wanted to be considered special to Brian but never actually expected to get that?That would be plain sad, wouldn't it? Doesn't sound like the strong Justin we know, especially at the end of S3. I'd rather like to think that Justin finally realized that he means more to Brian than anyone else, and that it doesn't ( ... )

secretsolitaire July 19 2008, 17:11:02 UTC

This has been such an interesting discussion! People's interpretations are all over the map, and I'm still not sure what to think myself. :-/

we know that Justin expected to be treated differently (and rightfully so) from all the other people Brian slept with. And he wanted Brian to acknowledge their relationship, and not only in the subtle ways Brian used to do it and which Justin was too frustrated to read anymore in the end.

I guess it comes down to whether he expected different treatment or simply wanted it without thinking he could get it. Personally, I'm with you -- I think he did expect it at certain points in the first few seasons, particularly in S1 when he had so much confidence and seemed to think he could change Brian with sheer persistence. (And I think in many ways he succeeded ( ... )

kari77 July 19 2008, 17:49:03 UTC

Rambling about QaF is fun. ;)
I agree with you that there were a lot of unresolved issues when they got back together.

I have always sort of wished that Ethan and Justin didn't break up over Ethan's cheating -- I wish Justin had realized on his own that Ethan wasn't right for him and Brian was.
See, I think that was exactly what happened. In ep. 304 at latest, we see that Justin isn't that much into Ethan anymore and sort of regrets to have left Brian (just think about the last scene in 304 and the returning of the bracelet). Ethan cheating on Justin was just the last drop to make the cup overflow, so to speak.

As it is, the cheating sends the message that monogamy and romance are just an illusion and so Justin may as well go back to Brian since his romantic dreams were total crapHuh, that's a very interesting point. Never thought about it that way ( ... )

secretsolitaire July 19 2008, 20:41:28 UTC

n ep. 304 at latest, we see that Justin isn't that much into Ethan anymore and sort of regrets to have left Brian (just think about the last scene in 304 and the returning of the bracelet). Ethan cheating on Justin was just the last drop to make the cup overflow, so to speak.

I love that 304 scene SO MUCH. I think it's the hottest non-sex scene in the whole series. Look up UST in the dictionary and that scene will be there. *shivers*

*pauses to watch the scene on YouTube*

*returns*

What was I saying? Oh! Yes, I agree that there were definite signs that Justin wasn't as happy with Ethan as he might have expected to be, and that he was still drawn to Brian. But I still would have liked to see him make the decision himself to leave Ethan (and perhaps be single for a while to get his head together) rather than essentially having his hand forced by Ethan's lies/cheating. It still seemed to me that Justin would have stayed for a while longer with Ethan had the cheating not happened, so I'm always curious what would have gotten him to ( ... )

justinlovesart July 19 2008, 03:15:01 UTC

OR, is he saying he wanted to be considered special to Brian but never actually expected to get that?

This.

It's confirmed by the final dialogue: "I now know what to expect from you", which I've always interpreted as: "I still would like to be considered special...but I now know that there's a difference between what I want and what I can expect."

I'll stop here, ok? Because 308 makes me very, very sad and I really need to find a way to deal with it.

hpuckle July 19 2008, 14:00:13 UTC

I think I'll go with this too. The "I now know what to expect from you" suggests that Justin has realised he's probably never going to get exactly what he wants from Brian.

xxx

secretsolitaire July 19 2008, 17:36:15 UTC

The "I now know what to expect from you" suggests that Justin has realised he's probably never going to get exactly what he wants from Brian.

I definitely agree with this. I'm still not so sure about the earlier line though. I mean, I can buy that Justin doesn't expect anything special now, but that he "never did"? Not even in S1 when he was so confident that he could make Brian love him through sheer persistence? I think at least in S1 he went behind just wanting into expecting, so I still don't buy the idea that Justin never expected anything of Brian. But perhaps I am being too literal. ;-)

hpuckle July 19 2008, 17:45:25 UTC

Shit, sorry. I'm stupid. I misread exactly what gmta_nz had copied.

I agree completely with what you said. I've struggled with that line before too, but I just didn't look into it too much!

I don't know for sure exactly what he meant by it. I think I'd be most likely to lean towards - He never expected anything particularly special from Brian, just a little everyday affection and love and respect?

xxx

Thread 6

ex_absolutef238 July 19 2008, 03:59:00 UTC

i've analyzed that line too! at first i scratched my head but then one night i was watching it and it suddenly clicked, because you know they both smirk after he says it.

i think he's saying, i'll let you think you're not treating me special, just like i always have. but you will treat me special just like you always have. that's part of their unspoken agreement thingy.

cut to later in the season when brian says, 'i would have fired your ass if my dick wasn't in it'.

hee. yeah. justin said it knowing he gets special treatment. that's what i think.

ex_absolutef238 July 19 2008, 04:04:05 UTC

p.s. in my opinion justin was being a smartass (in a good way) during that whole scene. he was scared shitless, but as usual, he ignores his fears in favor of getting what he wants from brian and got it.

darla_isabelle July 19 2008, 06:48:12 UTC

I like that! It makes perfest sense in this situation, I'm going with that from now on.

ex_absolutef238 July 19 2008, 07:32:26 UTC

thanks! :D:D

Thread 9

(The comment has been removed)

secretsolitaire July 19 2008, 17:55:17 UTC

I think that's where I'm getting tripped up! We can probably all agree that Justin wanted certain special treatment from Brian, but whether or not he actually expected it is a bit more in doubt. Personally, I think he had plenty of expectations, particularly in S1 when he was confident enough to think he could make Brian love him through sheer persistence. (And he did, pretty much -- look at the prom!)

I'm glad the line doesn't bother you, LOL. I am continuing to mull over it. :-)

(The comment has been removed)

secretsolitaire July 19 2008, 21:42:03 UTC

I've watched it over and over again, and I'm starting to see a little twinkle in Justin's eye along with a smirk on his lips after he says this line, so the "tongue in cheek" hypothesis is gaining ground with me. I like the way visitingagain puts it:

"I never have" is more humorous Justin double-talk, because he always expects more and Brian always give him more, and they both know it.

Brian never gives him as much as he wants, of course, and that's what I think Justin is referring to later in the ep when he says he knows what he can expect from Brian. But I also think he's recognizing again what Brian does give him, and that's why he's coming back.