I was hoping for more back story too--something to do with his time as mayor. I can imagine the police force being really intimidating to a shrimpy kid mayor.
This is not what I wanted to see for Tom/Ann. I could totally see the friends first scenario--they could have started hanging out because of their respective friendships with Ben and Leslie, or because Ann has been looking for friends in City Hall all season, and then had something gradually develop from there. "You wore me down" was such a horrifying way to get them to go out on a second date.
The Leslie/Ben stuff and the Duke Silver/Ron/April stuff was definitely the silver lining.
Oh man. I'm going to come out and say it (well, I already said it on tumblr) - I've never been a huge fan of Tom, but this episode made me wish violent physical harm upon him. Ann should have smacked him upside the head, as we say in the South. That was just a train wreck. Ann is so much better than that. I wish Ann had called April over and been like, remember everything you said about Tom being a good guy who would treat me well? And then April could've clashed those cymbals in his face.
And the A-plot was a little too cartoon-y for me on both the Dave and the Ben/cops sides. Although I'm thinking Ben never did actually pee until the tag. He wasn't really gone for long enough the first time, and I doubt he wanted to leave Leslie and Dave alone after Dave released him from the urinal. Either that or being nervous makes him have to go.
Loved April/Ron/Andy. That was really the best part.
Yeah, I usually do like Tom, and really didn't like this storyline, so I can only imagine how it must have been to you. It reminded me of his behavior in Soulmates, except there he was deliberately being obnoxious, and here he had no self-awareness at all.
Everything was far too cartoony--exaggerating different characters' traits just for comedy. (Except for Leslie. How weird is it that Leslie was the sane center?) I hope it's just a blip.
You are probably right about Ben not wanting to leave Dave and Leslie alone, but why wouldn't he pee the first time he left the table? Not that we have to debate this.
but he seemed to be making assumptions and trying to make the decision for her, without finding out or caring how she felt. And that’s not cool, Dave. Neither is handcuffing her boyfriend to a urinal.Yeah.... I guess the only saving grace was that he kept reiterating he wanted to talk to Leslie about it, which he obviously couldn't very well do with Ben around. So I guess maybe it was more Leslie's terrible decision to try to force her current and ex-boyfriends to get along that made it seem like he was trying to make a bunch of decisions for her. I mean, if Ben hadn't been there, they probably would've talked about it rather more calmly, Leslie would've explained she loved Ben (much like she did at the end of the ep) and Dave would've stepped down and respected her decision, like he finally did anyway. Of course, that would have made for rather less of a story, not to mention lacked a lot of the awkwardness that way
( ... )
I may have been a little harsh on Dave last night. You're right that he just wanted a few minutes to talk to Leslie and he didn't get that. Leslie probably could have ended the awkwardness pretty quickly by just asking Ben to give them a minute and letting Dave down, but then where's the comedy in that. I also wondered Dave maybe he regretted not being more upfront about his feelings two years ago. There was something about him dismissing Leslie and Ben's relationship as a non-issue and saying she felt the same way when he didn't know that still rubbed me the wrong way.
I think it could have been funny if Dave didn't know Ben was more than her campaign manager, and misinterpreted Ben's attempts to win him over as flirting with him. Maybe that would have been too much like an inverse of the Bubble plot though.
Sure, Dave was kind of obnoxious telling Ben what Leslie felt, but I think him dismissing their relationship was more posturing than anything else. I can't imagine him saying the same thing to Leslie or blame him for not wanting to be nice to her new boyfriend, really. But the handcuffing and what followed was over the top and felt OOC, I agree.
I think it could have been funny if Dave didn't know Ben was more than her campaign manager Exactly! Dave could've shown up somewhere, her house, the Parks Dept...wherever, looking for her and finding Ben instead. Ben would've known who Dave was. Dave would not have known who Ben was and Ben would've been intimidated by him being a cop while at the same time trying to play it cool and be nice about it. And yes, if Dave found Ben to be effeminate throughout it all and started to wonder about Ben's intentions, that would have been even more hilarious. Later Leslie could've shown up - or not. She and Ben could've just run into him again at the police party to get a scene between the three of
( ... )
As someone who also fears cops (or really, anyone with any unquestioned authority), I can see where Ben is coming from. Though as a white, middle-class male, he has less to fear than most people.
I've seen some of the deleted scenes and I think the episode would have been a lot stronger with them in. I think there were missing pieces in the story - especially regarding motivations and explanations - that would have improved the episode if included.
Yeah, I agree. I just read your post on tumblr, and I think you're right that tweaks here and there could have helped this episode out a lot.
I don't think Tom was being overly aggressive either, because as you said over there, she hadn't shot him down yet, but I still found him really frustrating to watch. He seemed Soulmates-level obnoxious, except then he was trying to be obnoxious , and here is presumably wasn't. And I think he tends to go overboard, but he also usually has more self-awareness and at some point dials it back, which he never did here. Maybe it was because he was intimidated by Ann, but the show didn't convey that to us. I was so annoyed with him when he launched into that song--I could really feel for Ann right then, wanting Tom to calm down and talk to her like a real person. And then I couldn't believe she said yes at that point, having shown no sign of liking him at all during the storyline. I wish the two of them had talking heads to put their actions in perspective
( ... )
Even though you know I don't ship it, I get where you're coming from with Ann and Tom. I've written them hooking up twice- once as an angry/horny thing, and once as Ann thinking he needed a little more time to mature- but still thinking he's a guy with some good qualities. Here, we're seeing none of those things. And I think Tom has a good heart and lots of great ambition, even if he's been aimless lately. But we're not seeing that right now. I wonder how Rashida justified it in her head- what in the world does she think made Ann agree to another date?
I wonder if they were trying to buck the cliche here, because normally that story plays out: annoying character torments the straight man, and then when the straight man confronts AC, AC breaks and shows their soul, and SM gets it and likes them despite the facade. And they almost went there, and then veered into this strange "no-he-really-is-awful" thing that I don't get. We like the cliche because it works; this didn't.
It seems like Ann must secretly like something about Tom even if she's not owning up to it out loud. Otherwise, I can't see her agreeing with April, fixing her hair in the car before meeting him, or agreeing to go out with him again after all that. None of that makes sense if she doesn't like him. But we haven't seen her like him ... or seen him being likable. So frustrating.
I don't know why they thought this would be enjoyable. It's comedy! Therefore everyone can act awful and we can laugh about it. Really wish that had asked you for Tom/Ann plot ideas to start out with. And you raised another good point on tumblr about why it's hard to write Ann stories with most of the other characters--if this awkward thing with Tom runs its course in a few episodes, then who does she get to hang out with?
It's like at the beginning of the season when Chris started dating Jerry's daughter and it was weird and tone deaf and out of character and most damningly, not funny. I mean, it eventually lead to one of my favorite scenes in season four, the Chris and April scene in 4x13, but was it worth the asthma?
I'm not sure we should always trust the writers...
Was it worth the asthma? To quote one of my favorite characters back at you, NO! Although, that didn't bother me as much because I don't care about Chris's storylines nearly as much as I do about Tom's or Ann's.
The writers are often excellent but sometimes get something wrong. Luckily they are often excellent. I do like the little preview clip for next week. Tom and Ann are having an actual conversation! Like recognizable human beings! And my shippy heart is getting all fluttery about it in spite of recent history.
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This is not what I wanted to see for Tom/Ann. I could totally see the friends first scenario--they could have started hanging out because of their respective friendships with Ben and Leslie, or because Ann has been looking for friends in City Hall all season, and then had something gradually develop from there. "You wore me down" was such a horrifying way to get them to go out on a second date.
The Leslie/Ben stuff and the Duke Silver/Ron/April stuff was definitely the silver lining.
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And the A-plot was a little too cartoon-y for me on both the Dave and the Ben/cops sides. Although I'm thinking Ben never did actually pee until the tag. He wasn't really gone for long enough the first time, and I doubt he wanted to leave Leslie and Dave alone after Dave released him from the urinal. Either that or being nervous makes him have to go.
Loved April/Ron/Andy. That was really the best part.
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Everything was far too cartoony--exaggerating different characters' traits just for comedy. (Except for Leslie. How weird is it that Leslie was the sane center?) I hope it's just a blip.
You are probably right about Ben not wanting to leave Dave and Leslie alone, but why wouldn't he pee the first time he left the table? Not that we have to debate this.
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I think it could have been funny if Dave didn't know Ben was more than her campaign manager, and misinterpreted Ben's attempts to win him over as flirting with him. Maybe that would have been too much like an inverse of the Bubble plot though.
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I think it could have been funny if Dave didn't know Ben was more than her campaign manager Exactly! Dave could've shown up somewhere, her house, the Parks Dept...wherever, looking for her and finding Ben instead. Ben would've known who Dave was. Dave would not have known who Ben was and Ben would've been intimidated by him being a cop while at the same time trying to play it cool and be nice about it. And yes, if Dave found Ben to be effeminate throughout it all and started to wonder about Ben's intentions, that would have been even more hilarious. Later Leslie could've shown up - or not. She and Ben could've just run into him again at the police party to get a scene between the three of ( ... )
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I don't think Tom was being overly aggressive either, because as you said over there, she hadn't shot him down yet, but I still found him really frustrating to watch. He seemed Soulmates-level obnoxious, except then he was trying to be obnoxious , and here is presumably wasn't. And I think he tends to go overboard, but he also usually has more self-awareness and at some point dials it back, which he never did here. Maybe it was because he was intimidated by Ann, but the show didn't convey that to us. I was so annoyed with him when he launched into that song--I could really feel for Ann right then, wanting Tom to calm down and talk to her like a real person. And then I couldn't believe she said yes at that point, having shown no sign of liking him at all during the storyline. I wish the two of them had talking heads to put their actions in perspective ( ... )
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I wonder if they were trying to buck the cliche here, because normally that story plays out: annoying character torments the straight man, and then when the straight man confronts AC, AC breaks and shows their soul, and SM gets it and likes them despite the facade. And they almost went there, and then veered into this strange "no-he-really-is-awful" thing that I don't get. We like the cliche because it works; this didn't.
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I don't know why they thought this would be enjoyable. It's comedy! Therefore everyone can act awful and we can laugh about it. Really wish that had asked you for Tom/Ann plot ideas to start out with. And you raised another good point on tumblr about why it's hard to write Ann stories with most of the other characters--if this awkward thing with Tom runs its course in a few episodes, then who does she get to hang out with?
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I'm not sure we should always trust the writers...
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The writers are often excellent but sometimes get something wrong. Luckily they are often excellent. I do like the little preview clip for next week. Tom and Ann are having an actual conversation! Like recognizable human beings! And my shippy heart is getting all fluttery about it in spite of recent history.
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