Ethics Gradient

[pw201]

lisekit has a discussion on novels, religion and relativism in religion. She says that, where religion is concerned, she doesn't like to say that anyone's views are more or less valuable than anyone else's. This set me thinking about the idea of relativism in general (which lisekit isn't advocating, lest I accuse her of it, as she mentions respect and tolerance

Comments

[lisekit]

I suppose I'm back to morality as enlightened self-interest again: the reason these people are inculating their children in their particular culture is because those cultures work, and they want their children to be happy, fulfilled and all that stuff.

Yeah, that makes sese to me. Fluffity-lah.

I think the relativism only came into the discussion latterly - it began as one about tolerance. And it specifically began as an idea about how some people seem to be prepared to show tolerance and cultural sensitivity towards more foreign systems of tradition and belief - my suggestion was that people feel they absolutely don't understand and can't offer an op[inion - but appear to feel happy offering opinions left, right and right-of centre on religion at home in the (perhaps mistaken) belief that they understand this better.

Of course, then someone showed up on the thread to denounce all belief, which I is different to the case I had in mind, and I suppose shows a certain degree of internal consistency, but I don't think is a

[ex_robhu]

I believe we should be tolerant of other peoples beliefs in the sense of not trying to forcibly change them (perhaps unless those beliefs lead to actions which have a strong negative effect on others [although I'm not sure about this]).

Toleration does not prevent us from trying to debate / argue with / convert those people to our own particular beliefs and way of thinking however. If we believe we have the truth and someone else does not then (depending on the scale of consequence of them not being 'right' in our view) if we really care about them we should try to debate / argue with / convert them.

Of course there are two sides to this - I know of (Christian) people who try to convert people in part because they care about them and don't want them to burn in hell but also because their church / denomination / cu has put a lot of social pressure on them to 'be evangelistic'; this I think is a bit of a shame.

I'm still hopefully that there is a truth out there which can be discovered, something that we can be certain of.

[lisekit]

I believe we should be tolerant of other peoples beliefs in the sense of not trying to forcibly change them ....

Toleration does not prevent us from trying to
convert those people to our own particular beliefs

I don't quite understand the distinction between the two. (Alright, I understand that you think there is a difference in force, or level, but in a very basic way, I don't see a distinction.)

[ex_robhu]

Dictionary.com: Tolerate

1. To allow without prohibiting or opposing; permit.
2. To recognize and respect (the rights, beliefs, or practices of others).
3. To put up with; endure.

So we tolerate someones belief by not prohibiting them from having (/exercising) those beliefs.

Dictionary.com: Convert
"...To persuade or induce to adopt a particular religion, faith, or belief: convert pagans to Christianity; was converted to pacifism by the war."
Conversion/persuasion/etc is where we act to try to change those beliefs.

They have quite different meanings.

[lisekit]

Could it not be said, that an attempt to change or convert beliefs, is in itself an attempt to prohibit or oppose the existing belief? (You don't wanna believe like that....!)

[andrewducker]

You can rationalise the whole 'better than' thing by remembering that "better than" has to be for a purpouse.

Word is better than LaTex for quickly knocking up a letter.
LaTex is better than Word for producing properly formatted large documents.

I am better than my friend Ed at maths.

But I'm not better than anyone in a general sense, because the phrase doesn't make any sense.

[ex_robhu]

vi is better than emacs :0P !!!

[andrewducker]

Good Lord. You changed your mind about that too!

[pw201]

It was OK when robhu became a Christian, but becoming an Emacs user is beyond the pale.