The great question

[curtainpull]

Hi guys! I joined this comm because I've recently written a few John things, which I will post here pretty soonish, as I have an incurable urge to self pimp! However, at the moment while answering the comments, I'm realising that I really have amibvalent atttudes towards John! I kinda hate him, but don't. So, I am bringing you guys a ridiculously

Comments

[unhobbityhobbit]

That's kind of a silly question considering where you're posting it.

[phantomas]

LOL
In a way, yes, I'd be surprised if the answer was a prevalent 'no' here...possibly a better taste for how the fandom sees John would be the supernatural_tv comm....at least, I hope that people in this comm are PRO PAPA! *G*

[kavousi]

yep, thats right up there with asking the pope if he thinks that Jesus guy was any good! :P

I dont see a bell curve happening in this poll! But polls are always fun...

[curtainpull]

But polls are always fun...

They really are *nods*

[fangirlsays]

I didn't vote, because your options are sort of too black-and-white. I believe John was a good man who loved his sons, but I believe he was also highly traumatized by Mary's death and all the horrible things he saw in his lifetime, and that he was not the kind of father he would've been had the YED never visited them. In short, he was human, he made mistakes, but he did the best he could under extremely adverse conditions.

[ficwriter1966]

That's very nicely put, hanncoll. It's my viewpoint exactly.

[curtainpull]

Yeah, I think I needed an "only human" option *g* But black and white over simplifications are what polls are for, right? I'm excited to see if "amazing" or "at least raised his sons right" will win!

Poll

[linda92595]

I didn't vote either, because I agree that the choices are too black and wahte. I think that John was a good father, and I don't share the too common view that he was an abusive parent. I don't think that there is any evidince of that in canon at all. Was he a nice man? Not always he was a tough bastard, and a stone cold killer because he had to be. I think of him as the anti-hero. A guy that is basically a hero but uses questionable means to achieve his goals if he has to.

Linda

Re: Poll

[curtainpull]

Oh no way do I think he was abusive, that's not something I've ever seen come through on screen.

anti-hero

Yeah, that's quite a good way of putting it.

Re: Poll

[linda92595]

Yeah, I think anti-hero is a good term for John. But I do think he loved the boys and I don't beleive that he was too harsh on Dean. He did what he had to do under terrible circustances to insure that his sons could protect themselves and survive.

Re: Poll

[curtainpull]

Deefinitly, I think that's waht I've come to think too!

[disanddat]

Umm... not enough gray areas in the poll. I like my John as a mostly honourable (by his own code) man with a lot of shadowed areas.

[kavousi]

On a serious level, of course, way too complex to define by this poll. But for the choices given... yes, I think he was amazing for being a single father and his devotion to protecting his kids. He had a good morale code (really, the con man stuff.. its not like he taught the boys to steal from old ladies

[disanddat]

*much applause*

Yeap, that's our guy... not a perfect person, but all things considered raised a pair of damned fine men.

On a more crack-ish level, I'd love to have seen him tossing holy water at Sam and saying 'Christo'... while Dean snickered behind his hand and Sam's bitch-face pinched up even more. *giggles*

[curtainpull]

On a more crack-ish level, I'd love to have seen him tossing holy water at Sam and saying 'Christo'... while Dean snickered behind his hand and Sam's bitch-face pinched up even more. *giggles*

Oh man, someone needs to write that fic! Hee!

[jdsgirlbev]

Me? I come down on the AMAZING side of this poll.(Yeah, big surprise, huh?)

Sam was 6 MONTHS old, Dean was 4. Look at the men Dean and Sam have become, that didn't happen in a vacuum. And I don't care how fabulous and wonderful a 4, 5 or 6 year old Dean was, he did NOT do the VAST majority of the things that an infant needs on a minute to minute basis, up until they're around 3, if mine was anything to by. John did all that, to a very great extent alone. All the while mourning a wife murdered by a DEMON and learning to hunt vampires, ghosts, and poltergeists! I consider John to have done a better job as a father than 70% of the fathers of my own personal acquaintance

[curtainpull]

Look at the men Dean and Sam have become, that didn't happen in a vacuum

I know, that's one of the main reasons why I tend to come down on the "pro" side of the fence!

have no idea where the too common "abusive" label came from

Me neither! I definitely don't get that from him!

And just exactly what did John DO TO Dean, again?

Dude, he told him he had to kill his brother! You know, the brother he's totally willing to give his soul to keep alive? That one? I can't forgive him for that.

forget the holy water, bring on the devil's traps!

God yeah!

[kavousi]

Exactly! And in Dean's own AU after playing with the Dijin...um, he was raised by mom & dad in perfect suburbia..and he isnt any better off. If anything, his mom dying caused major female abandonment issues.. that was the only major difference. If anything, it was John who made the boys a tight knit family

[curtainpull]

Well, I always considered that the Au was more from Dean's brain than actually what would have happened, but they left it pretty open in the episode, so you can defintely see it like that, in which case you're right.

I definitely don't think he was abusive, I just edited this post to make that clear! No matter what you think of him, he definitely loved those guys!

John mastered getting puke out of the Impala's upholstry when the boys gorged on something they shouldnt. John was the one rocking Sammy to sleep and bouncing him in public to keep him happy,singing songs (ok, probably classic rock)and cutting up Dean's food and teaching him to tie his shoes, you name it.

Aw, that is so sweet! And yeah, I can imagine being trapped in a car with annoying teenagers was not so much like fun.