Comments | papawinchester: The great question

curtainpull in papawinchester

The great question

Jul 30, 2007 14:07

Hi guys! I joined this comm because I've recently written a few John things, which I will post here pretty soonish, as I have an incurable urge to self pimp! However, at the moment while answering the comments, I'm realising that I really have amibvalent atttudes towards John! I kinda hate him, but don't. So, I am bringing you guys a ridiculously ( Read more... )

poll, discussion

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jdsgirlbev July 30 2007, 17:02:43 UTC

Me? I come down on the AMAZING side of this poll.(Yeah, big surprise, huh?)

Sam was 6 MONTHS old, Dean was 4. Look at the men Dean and Sam have become, that didn't happen in a vacuum. And I don't care how fabulous and wonderful a 4, 5 or 6 year old Dean was, he did NOT do the VAST majority of the things that an infant needs on a minute to minute basis, up until they're around 3, if mine was anything to by. John did all that, to a very great extent alone. All the while mourning a wife murdered by a DEMON and learning to hunt vampires, ghosts, and poltergeists! I consider John to have done a better job as a father than 70% of the fathers of my own personal acquaintance ( ... )

curtainpull July 30 2007, 17:30:28 UTC

Look at the men Dean and Sam have become, that didn't happen in a vacuum

I know, that's one of the main reasons why I tend to come down on the "pro" side of the fence!

have no idea where the too common "abusive" label came from

Me neither! I definitely don't get that from him!

And just exactly what did John DO TO Dean, again?

Dude, he told him he had to kill his brother! You know, the brother he's totally willing to give his soul to keep alive? That one? I can't forgive him for that.

forget the holy water, bring on the devil's traps!

God yeah!

kavousi July 30 2007, 17:46:11 UTC

Exactly! And in Dean's own AU after playing with the Dijin...um, he was raised by mom & dad in perfect suburbia..and he isnt any better off. If anything, his mom dying caused major female abandonment issues.. that was the only major difference. If anything, it was John who made the boys a tight knit family ( ... )

curtainpull July 30 2007, 17:53:35 UTC

Well, I always considered that the Au was more from Dean's brain than actually what would have happened, but they left it pretty open in the episode, so you can defintely see it like that, in which case you're right.

I definitely don't think he was abusive, I just edited this post to make that clear! No matter what you think of him, he definitely loved those guys!

John mastered getting puke out of the Impala's upholstry when the boys gorged on something they shouldnt. John was the one rocking Sammy to sleep and bouncing him in public to keep him happy,singing songs (ok, probably classic rock)and cutting up Dean's food and teaching him to tie his shoes, you name it.

Aw, that is so sweet! And yeah, I can imagine being trapped in a car with annoying teenagers was not so much like fun.

ETA 2 (yes, I know I should go to bed and hush) kavousi July 30 2007, 17:59:04 UTC

"ETA again: The questions about John being mean to his boys are realy only about "canon" meanness, like telling Sam to stay gone when he went to Standford, or getting on Dean's case about the IMpala being dirty. I definitely don't hink he was abusive or anything ( ... )

Re: ETA 2 (yes, I know I should go to bed and hush) curtainpull July 30 2007, 18:46:14 UTC

Oh man, my bad typing shocks me so much when it's quoted back, I'm so sorry! And hope you sleep well!

I reckon your milage varies with John and "canon" meanness, funnily enough I think him implying that Dean doesn't take care of the Implala is almost more undefensible than his behaviour to Sam! I certainly think that, although they did reconcile, what he said to sam was pretty non defensible, especially since Sam couldn't have been expected to know he was out there checking up on him, to Sam, it wouls have just seemed like he abandoned him!

sit up straight, young lady!)
*sits up*

Re: ETA 2 (yes, I know I should go to bed and hush) kavousi July 30 2007, 23:31:10 UTC

You are right, its a crappy thing for a dad to say to a kid... but we also only know half the story... we know Sam said some pretty bad stuff too. Sam and John are alpha males... probably both equally guilty in most cases ( ... )

Re: ETA 2 (yes, I know I should go to bed and hush) curtainpull July 31 2007, 20:21:02 UTC

your poll was quite the catalyst for thought, very cool!!!)

Thank you! That's what I hoped would happen, I've been amazed and gratified at the response!

the Winchesters are Freud's wet dream.

Damm right! I guess that's why this has had such a response! And hee for the oral fixation! OMG IT EXPLAINS SO MUCH!!11!

jdsgirlbev July 30 2007, 18:50:52 UTC

>>And just exactly what did John DO TO Dean, again?

Dude, he told him he had to kill his brother! You know, the brother he's totally willing to give his soul to keep alive? That one? I can't forgive him for that.He told Dean that he had to SAVE his brother, and in saving him, save the world. If Sam had turned evil and lost his soul in the turning, if he had become the chosen one, and let all the evils of hell lose...what then? I think Sam would have much preferred death. What would Dean have done if he had LET Sam turn the world into a living hell? Kill himself ( ... )

curtainpull July 30 2007, 21:56:05 UTC

How many months did he KNOW that he might have to kill his own son? KNOWING that Dean would NEVER forgive him for that.

I know, that would be awful and heartbreaking. Poor guy. Yeah, I agree that you have to feel sorry for John there. So that this isn't just a comment agreeing with you, though..

As long as John was alive, the YED left Sam virtually alone.

He burnt his gilfriend on the ceiling!

jdsgirlbev July 31 2007, 00:50:12 UTC

>>He burnt his girlfriend on the ceiling ( ... )

curtainpull July 31 2007, 20:25:25 UTC

Can you tell I'm trying to convert you to The Way of John?

What! What's this you say? That's what you're trying to do? *is shocked*

Anyway, I think I wanted to be converted, otherwise I wouldn't have posted this here! I still have ambivalent attitudes, but you guys have been great with the arguments, I've loved the response this has got!

Someone here mentioned that John was in crisis mode for a long time after he needed to be

Hee, I think that was actually another pro John thing! that he had a lot of crises to deal with!

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