Comments | ontd_political: In which gender essentialism can DIAF

mephisto5 in ontd_political

In which gender essentialism can DIAF

Nov 12, 2012 20:43

Nine-Year-Old Girl Plays Football, Kicks Ass and Maybe Changes the World

Few 9-year-old girls are described as a “young-very young-Walter Payton.” But that’s what people are calling Sam Gordon of South Jordan, Utah. Gordon has become an Internet sensation after the spread of viral videos showing her shredding Pee Wee football defenses with a series ( Read more... )

feminism, usa, sexism, flawless, sports, lgbtq / gender & sexual minorities, totally awesome

Comments 24

the_physicist November 12 2012, 22:13:34 UTC

i'm intersex and trans* with mostly female physiology. my intersex status gives me 0% advantage in sport over others, if anything my heart problems related to my intersex condition make me worse ( ... )

mephisto5 November 12 2012, 22:27:35 UTC

I was not aware that there were any conditions associated with being intersex, other than the obvious. If it's not too intrusive, would you mind elaborating?

What I got from this article was not that CAFAB people and CAMAB people would be equal at every sport if sex segregation at younger ages were removed, but that a large part of the current difference in performance is due to early sex segregation and that it's not so much that one sex (loosely defined here, please let me know if my terminology can be improved) is better across the board than the other, but that they tend to be better in different areas (I think on a related previous ontd post someone pointed out CAFAB people tend to have an advantage in sports requiring a low centre of gravity).

Agree with you on not being challenged thing- I only started doing sport intensely once I got to university (rowing), which was before I started transitioning, and there our female bodied team beat the shit out of the male bodied team.

the_physicist November 12 2012, 22:38:05 UTC

but that a large part of the current difference in performance is due to early sex segregation

that's kind of what i was trying to get at with the girls not being challenged, i could have made my point more clearly though, i realise that though XD . and them not being challenged kind of comes from the fact that they do "ability" segregation by sex, rather than segregation based on ability regardless of sex.

it's not so much that one sex (loosely defined here, please let me know if my terminology can be improved) is better across the board than the other, but that they tend to be better in different areasi feel that goes into the territory of 'girls are not weak, they are just different!' (i.e. let's just change the word here, but not the thinking) as well as still keeping up the mental thinking barriers that girls are just good at X, and boys at Z ( ... )

liret November 12 2012, 23:18:23 UTC

i feel that goes into the territory of 'girls are not weak, they are just different!' (i.e. let's just change the word here, but not the thinking) as well as still keeping up the mental thinking barriers that girls are just good at X, and boys at Z.

I know you aren't saying there are no physical differences, and it's a big problem when that argument is used to keep people out of certain sports - but it's also not really something that can be ignored in sports or solved by just saying girls can join whatever teams they want. From a training perspective, not recognizing the different strengths and weaknesses of female bodies and using a 'one size fits all' approach - which like most things that are supposed to apply to everyone was designed by generations of intensly studying the physical devolopment of men and boys - is part of what keeps girls from being as strong as they could, as well as putting them at a much greater risk for certain injuries ( ... )

Thread 11

kitbug November 13 2012, 00:05:18 UTC

The women's track team at my university just won a regional championship and got a pass to the national conference as a whole. Men's team managed to squeak in one guy to represent them.

JUST SAYING~

anolinde November 13 2012, 00:30:53 UTC

Yeah, our female sports teams always seem to be doing better than the male teams... and yet no one ever goes to see the women. =(

kitbug November 13 2012, 00:52:52 UTC

Yeah, it's really sad. :< The ladies are totally kicking ass this year. One of the coaches told me that the women are always more focused and work harder than the dudes. I have a pet theory that it's because womens' sports aren't as mainstream and haven't been around as long, women don't take it for granted.

free_spoons November 13 2012, 01:59:18 UTC

my pet theory from my time playing college lacrosse is that women know there's no professional league after they graduated. The four years they have playing in college is the best competition they'll have for the rest of their lives. So we better put every thing we have into those 4 years.

On the other hand, guys at least have the small possibility of going pro and getting an even more competitive league. The story doesn't end in college for them.

kyra_neko_rei November 13 2012, 01:52:11 UTC

This is interesting. I do wish there were more "ability" classifications for sorting out the formation of teams. It might break down at the upper extremes of performance, where the farthest reaches of deviation from average combines with the base-difference advantages to put one gender solidly ahead, but at most other levels of competition there's often going to be both men and women able to play at the same level, especially if they train to it ( ... )

blunder_buss November 13 2012, 02:26:24 UTC

I saw a video of that little girl on Buzzfeed and uuuuugghhh the comments. They really could not help themselves from saying she should have fun now because it'll be all over once she hits puberty and she won't be able to play against boys anymore. Pretty much for the same reasons we've all heard before - boys are stronger than girls! Boy don't like hitting girls! She'll injure herself so we're banning her for her own good!

That girl was being a tiny little badass and all they could say is that she could only do it for a few more years until she had to 'retire'.

fenris_lorsrai November 13 2012, 03:00:31 UTC

The "boys think touching girls is icky" came up when our wrestling team went coed. OH NOES. Or that girls wouldn't like being groped. and boys wouldn't like being groped by girls. because people wrestling are totally thinking about how sexy their opponent is. yeah.

Unfortunately a lot of their early wins were due to refusals by opponents. boo.

encircleme November 13 2012, 03:46:58 UTC

"Boys don't like hitting girls!"

what's hilarious (and sad) is that that's not true.

veracity November 13 2012, 05:51:59 UTC

Well, to be fair, it's only fun if the prey can't fight back.

I feel so, so dirty typing that. I need a shower.

Thread 5

pleasure_past November 13 2012, 13:50:45 UTC

I'm uncomfortable with male-only sports leagues for the same reason I'm uncomfortable with all boys schools; they're transphobic and they tend to nurture "dudebro culture" and a sense of superiority to females. I do think all girl leagues and schools should exist, though. There are still issues of transphobia to contend with, but I think those are far more fixable/less innate in the system than nurturing of male supremacy in most spaces that exclude girls. (Also, let's be real, most spaces that excluded females admittedly did so at one time or another because they believed women/girls were inferior.) And yes, I do think that good coaches should adapt training to the needs of their players, including the needs that arise out of the physiological differences between male and female bodies. It's segregation* I have problem with more than differentiation ( ... )