In which gender essentialism can DIAF

Nov 12, 2012 20:43

Nine-Year-Old Girl Plays Football, Kicks Ass and Maybe Changes the World

Few 9-year-old girls are described as a “young-very young-Walter Payton.” But that’s what people are calling Sam Gordon of South Jordan, Utah. Gordon has become an Internet sensation after the spread of viral videos showing her shredding Pee Wee football defenses with a series ( Read more... )

feminism, usa, sexism, flawless, sports, lgbtq / gender & sexual minorities, totally awesome

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the_physicist November 12 2012, 22:13:34 UTC
i'm intersex and trans* with mostly female physiology. my intersex status gives me 0% advantage in sport over others, if anything my heart problems related to my intersex condition make me worse ( ... )

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mephisto5 November 12 2012, 22:27:35 UTC
I was not aware that there were any conditions associated with being intersex, other than the obvious. If it's not too intrusive, would you mind elaborating?

What I got from this article was not that CAFAB people and CAMAB people would be equal at every sport if sex segregation at younger ages were removed, but that a large part of the current difference in performance is due to early sex segregation and that it's not so much that one sex (loosely defined here, please let me know if my terminology can be improved) is better across the board than the other, but that they tend to be better in different areas (I think on a related previous ontd post someone pointed out CAFAB people tend to have an advantage in sports requiring a low centre of gravity).

Agree with you on not being challenged thing- I only started doing sport intensely once I got to university (rowing), which was before I started transitioning, and there our female bodied team beat the shit out of the male bodied team.

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the_physicist November 12 2012, 22:38:05 UTC
but that a large part of the current difference in performance is due to early sex segregation

that's kind of what i was trying to get at with the girls not being challenged, i could have made my point more clearly though, i realise that though XD . and them not being challenged kind of comes from the fact that they do "ability" segregation by sex, rather than segregation based on ability regardless of sex.

it's not so much that one sex (loosely defined here, please let me know if my terminology can be improved) is better across the board than the other, but that they tend to be better in different areasi feel that goes into the territory of 'girls are not weak, they are just different!' (i.e. let's just change the word here, but not the thinking) as well as still keeping up the mental thinking barriers that girls are just good at X, and boys at Z ( ... )

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liret November 12 2012, 23:18:23 UTC
i feel that goes into the territory of 'girls are not weak, they are just different!' (i.e. let's just change the word here, but not the thinking) as well as still keeping up the mental thinking barriers that girls are just good at X, and boys at Z.

I know you aren't saying there are no physical differences, and it's a big problem when that argument is used to keep people out of certain sports - but it's also not really something that can be ignored in sports or solved by just saying girls can join whatever teams they want. From a training perspective, not recognizing the different strengths and weaknesses of female bodies and using a 'one size fits all' approach - which like most things that are supposed to apply to everyone was designed by generations of intensly studying the physical devolopment of men and boys - is part of what keeps girls from being as strong as they could, as well as putting them at a much greater risk for certain injuries ( ... )

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mephisto5 November 12 2012, 23:24:47 UTC
Thanks for articulating this better than I could.

And yes- look at clips of Romanian female vs Canadian male VIIIs (most iconic boats for each sex I could think of off the top of my head). The power distribution throughout the stroke is completely different.

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the_physicist November 12 2012, 23:28:39 UTC
ah right, yes, i didn't mean it like there are no differences. believe me, i know there are XD .

i see what what meant now by 'girls are better at some thing'. yes, definitely training would need to be targeted.

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the_physicist November 12 2012, 22:56:49 UTC
reply, part II ;)

I was not aware that there were any conditions associated with being intersex, other than the obvious. If it's not too intrusive, would you mind elaborating?

maybe associated with is not the correct phrasing. i'm not good at medical stuff or biology. ironic and scary as i once taught biology at secondary school D: .

without going into too much detail, as far as is understood my intersex condition is most likely the result of ionising radiation one of my parents was exposed to. not Chernobyl, before you ask. the heart condition is linked in that sense that it's also thought to be the same cause... i don't know how it works really.

Agree with you on not being challenged thing- I only started doing sport intensely once I got to university (rowing), which was before I started transitioning, and there our female bodied team beat the shit out of the male bodied team.i used to row too, at school though. we had those lovely old gig boats. spent more time repairing them and keeping them from sinking than anything else, ( ... )

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skellington1 November 12 2012, 23:23:37 UTC
spent more time repairing them and keeping them from sinking than anything else, lol

I admit, I've known a lot of boat owners and that seems to be a universal experience. :P

(I don't have much of anything to add the subject at hand -- never been fit for competitive sports in my life, and it has nothing to do with gender -- but I've been interested in reading it, and the boat comment jumped out at me).

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the_physicist November 12 2012, 23:30:55 UTC
well, good to know it wasn't just us then! ;)

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mephisto5 November 12 2012, 23:26:54 UTC
Ah, thank you for explaining.

XD One of our novice crews managed to completely snap off half a metre of bow the day before a race. Our boatwoman was NOT pleased. She got it all fixed up in time though.

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the_physicist November 12 2012, 23:32:27 UTC
O_O that's... wow. glad she was able to get it fixed so quickly!

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