Letter Number Two

[onionsoupmix]

Dear Mom,

I remember looking at the faded photographs too. I remember seeing the bearded rabbi and his pious wife and being amazed that they were related to me. I remember thinking that they looked peaceful and holy and that I should memorize every wrinkle on their smiling faces.

I also remember you were so happy when you found out we were

Comments

[zeldazonk]

I am watching a documentary right now and it made me think of you. It's called Hiding and Seeking. I wrote about it a bit in my journal. If you haven't seen it, you really must.

[fetteredwolf]

In regards to the "religious standards", something I read in an Israeli newspaper: (A Shas party official who met with the Sephardic parents whose girls went to the "klali" or brown part of the school said:)
"I expected to see parents wearing jeans, a little kippa, and here are men with black coats and beards to their belly buttons."

Just so you know what this whole "religious standards" story is about.
I am very familiar with these schools. Why would a girl not get into the "torani" part? Well, maybe her father isn't in the "right" kollel. Or maybe her aunt doesn't cover her hair. Nothing to do with the actual religious standards of the girl in question.

[onionsoupmix]

I know, this is not even about religious standards, it's just stupid politics. Half the time that's what these things are- some big shots had an argument and now the little plebians are involved in a turf war.

[anonymous]

I think they wanted to be imprisoned because secretly they hated their wives cooking. Plus it saved the family money on food etc and it was another excuse of why they couldn't actually go to work.
A win win for all.

R

[anonymous]

I disagree. First of all, something like a quarter of the girls in the "Ashkenazi" school were Sephardi, and there were Ashkenazi girls in the "Sephardi" school. Sephardi and Ashkenazi parents went to jail together over this. I think this clearly points to the fact that the disagreement was religious rather than racial. Secondly, I believe reasonable people would want to send their children to a school where "everyone is the same" to a certain degree. One can disagree about what that degree (and as someone who obviously uses the internet, text messaging, etc I disagree with their level), but I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with my children going to school with non-Jews or people who weren't shomer shabbos, for example. Finally, reasonable people can decide to go to jail for their beliefs, even if they have small children at home. I'm not saying that I would make that choice. But what if it was the other way around, and the parents who went to jail were African Americans fighting for integration or civil rights in the 60s

[tesyaa]

The comparison to MLK is offensive. In any event, I don't think there would be as much outcry if the school wasn't state funded. Not that I think anyone should be a racist, but if you're going to be racist, be racist on your own dime.

So idiotic

[thehedyot]

This is the most absurd comparison I've ever heard, but it only highlights the point that Onionsoupmix makes. MLK and others like him were willing to suffer and be jailed in order to fight AGAINST racism and prejudice. But these disgusting chareidim have chosen to be jailed in order to defend their right to PROMOTE racism, or if you insist that it's not a racial issue, plain old prejudice.

What those leaders taught their children was that one must sometimes make sacrifices for justice. These parents are teaching their kids that they must sacrifice to maintain walls of hate.

[onionsoupmix]

I think this clearly points to the fact that the disagreement was religious rather than racial. So what? This is also pretty horrible. How would I look if I decided that I don't want my children going to school with anyone whose parent has a beard? Or keeps shabbos? Or eats cholov yisroel? I'd be called an anti-semite, at best. This is the same thing.

Secondly, I believe reasonable people would want to send their children to a school where "everyone is the same" to a certain degree. One can disagree about what that degree (and as someone who obviously uses the internet, text messaging, etc I disagree with their level), but I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with my children going to school with non-Jews or people who weren't shomer shabbos, for exampleThis is a lack of confidence in yourself as a parent. Do you really think that your parental influence is so limited that a child who is not shomer shabbos in your kid's room will make your kid go off the derech? If the our children are only able to appreciate the beauty of Judaism

[mrn613]

In the U.S. we as jews would be outraged if the public schools required us to send our children with no option of homeschooling and no option of sending to a private school. In this case the parents were jailed for keeping their children home (homeschooling). In addition they are not allowed to start their own school for their own children without a court order, which the court hasn't granted. In fact this situation reflects the G&T situation in NYC, where children who are predominantly white and Asian sit in G&T classrooms in the same buildings where blacks and hispanics sit in non-G&T classrooms with the same curriculum but vastly different resources. For some reason this is considered acceptible in NYC but not Immanuel.

[onionsoupmix]

Nope. State and local districts have immense power over all education decisions. School district can certainly prevent you from homeschooling if they don't think you will teach enough secular studies, for example. And school districts can (and most often do) force children to attend one particular school depending on where the parents live. Districts have considerable power over private schools too, they can set a minimum required curriculum and require employers not to discriminate based on race for example, they can prevent a school from opening in the first place through zoning rules and so on.

This school here is entirely funded by the government. So yes, the government can set the rules. That's how it works. And of course, the parents could have moved and started a new school elsewhere.

[mrn613]

Have you not heard of the unschooling movement? there are thousands of children who receive no schooling in secular studies and are not forced to attend school. and you are also incorrect that districts can set a minimum curriculum or force employers or schools not to disriminated based on race. surely you know that some schools in crown heights provide zero secular studies after eigth grade, but they continue to receive free or reduced price lunch for students. And following discrimination laws only applies if they accept public (federal state or local) funding. If I have a school that accepts no funding (including free or reduced price lunch and special needs funding) then I can discriminate based on race all I want.

[onionsoupmix]

Unschooling does not mean refraining from teaching secular studies. Unschooling is just a more child-centered form of homeschooling and the level at which the state regulates homeschooling varies heavily by state. See a lovely chart here: http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp

The schools in crown heights are most likely violating NY law, I had a post on this topic a few weeks ago.

Laws against discrimination based on race, etc, are not directed solely towards government funded organizations. For example, a private business cannot choose to hire employees only of a certain race or gender. Title VII, for example, applies to all employers who have 15 or more employees. There is a "ministerial" exemption for religious schools, but as far as I know, that pertains to religious positions only.