No offense, Nightwind... But what was it that you said earlier, about not assuming things about other people?
I know of whom you speak, yes. And I can tell you that I know far more about him than you do. And you are entirely off-base with your assumptions. Even worse - you haven't provided any answers, just repeated the same things that we've heard over and over and over and over again. The same. Meaningless. Words.
Would you like to know something? He surrendered his entire life, his entire being to Christianity and Christ. For ten years. He was a minister, he spread the word and prayed for forgiveness and still wondered why he felt filthy and miserable.
And, you know what? For ten years, I went through the same thing. I prayed, I read the Bible, I gave everythign I had, everything I was, and all I recieved in return was misery and depression and long nights full of paranoia about going to hell or being posessed by demons. Where was "Christ", then
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Az, I assumed nothing. I simply read what he said in his journal. So, since I don't know him, all I had to go by was what he had written in his journal about his experiences, which he wrote as a prelude to his challenge. This is what he said: "I stepped away from JWs, and started praying. Asking for answers, asking to know which of God's churches was the truth, what WAS the truth? I wanted to know my God, my saviour. I received no answer, I received no direction, after months with no sign - I became rather angry, rather bitter." He also said that Christian music and anything else "Christian" never touched him, but that pagan music did, so he decided to follow that path and he found he became a better person and all that. He never mentioned being a minister. He said nothing about having surrendered his will -- much less his entire life -- to the Lord. Are we talking about the same person here? Because, really, if he'd said all this in his challenge, my answer might have been quite different
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If you have a problem with hypocrisy and with people spreading warped versions of what Christianity is, IB...then you would make an excellent Christian if you ever made the choice to be one. Because Jesus had a problem with hypocrites, too. And so do I. And so do many Christians that I know. And in fact, if more Christians had problems with hypocrisy, then perhaps it wouldn't have the image that it has. So come. Join the dark side. ;) (I kid, I kid. :) )
Seriously, I know sort of what you mean. One reason amongst many that I stayed away from Christianity for so long was that I didn't want to "be like them". You know, like the televangelists and the "God hates faggers" and the abortion-clinic bombers and the Falwells and all those that the media just adore but who actually represent a tiny fraction of Christianity...and that tiny fraction has got it all wrong. In fact, there's only a tiny fraction that gets it right at all. And, oddly, that's just what the Bible said would happen as time went on. In any case, I want to be a part of
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Beleive me when I say this but if I had my way...we'd take the entire religion back to its roots. The whole message of Christianity was, "You may not love me, but I love you. My love is there for you to take if you can just see it." That's it.
Your answer to my challenge is pathetic, as it refuses to actually answer my challenge, which was for it's intent: "HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN MY DEEPLY SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE WHICH LEAD ME TO PAGANISM?" Your answer, in it's entirety is simply "Why Christianity is better." and falls back on the ole' No true Scottsman fallacy - which negates, as far as I'm concerned, your entire argument the moment you use it.
Nightwind, you don't know a single thing about me. You've just proven that. I never 'tried' Christianity, I WAS Christian - but your kind never accepts that. Never believes that, because then it throws a monkey-wrench in your perfect little belief system.
Surrender to God? I've got a quote for you. Winston Churchill, "WE SHALL NEVER SURRENDER!" And I never shall. I belong to ME.
This is my first, and only post in your journal. So I'll close in the same manner I close all of my rants with.
I don't think that's specific to Christianity, though - every spiritual path worth its salt is about surrender and devotion to the Divine. The very word "Islam", for instance, means "surrender/submission to God". As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong, since I was never a practicing Buddhist like you were), even Buddhism is about surrender - not to a personal God, but to the path of Buddha - and eradication of the ego. Christians don't have the monopoly on surrender.
I think the reason people are taking offence with your post is that it comes across like you're saying, "Christianity = radical surrender to God; every other spiritual path is just easy, feel-good self-improvement." (Note that I'm not saying that's necessarily what you intended to say; I'm saying that's how it comes across.) It's one thing to believe that Christ is the way to salvation; it's another thing to basically say that there's no sincere surrender outside of Christianity and everyone who follows a different path is just taking the
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As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong, since I was never a practicing Buddhist like you were), even Buddhism is about surrender - not to a personal God, but to the path of Buddha - and eradication of the ego. Christians don't have the monopoly on surrender."Buddhism -- at least the Tibetan, Therevadan sort that I practiced; there are many different beliefs that fall under the umbrella of "Buddhism," just as there are many beliefs that fall under the umbrella of "Christianity" -- was all about
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And, when I pray to God to do what He will to change me into the person that He wants me to be in Him, then I know that He will answer that prayer...but not necessarily in ways that I expect or even want. So, if one is looking for one thing to happen when one surrenders and it doesn't happen -- there's no "sign" -- then, yes, people become confused, at best. I did. When that happens, it generally happens because people are waiting for the Lord to do what they want or expect Him to do (To give them their "sign" or to feel a certain way or to become full of peace and happiness or whatever it is they prayed for) instead of waiting to understand what He wants them to do. This is why many people, I think, become disillusioned with the whole thing. They go into Christianity with certain expectations, as mphage -- at least from what he said, in that he asked God to know what the truth was and to know what church was the right one, etc. -- seemed to do, or they even outrightly demand things of God (as I did), and when those expectations aren't met
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I think the actual equation is more like, "True spirituality (on any path) = radical surrender to God as you relate to Him/Her/It; everything else = something else."
But why is it a legitimate belief, if one proclaims to be a Christian, to believe that there is more than one path? Jesus Himself said: "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matthew 7:13-14)
Those are all singular words there.
He also said of Himself, "I am the way and the truth and the life." (John 14:6)
Now, if one is not a Christian, then one can, of course, claim that there are a billion different and equally valid paths to God or truth or salvation. If one is not a Christian, then one can absolutely choose to believe whatever one wants to believe about how one can reach God. And most, of course, will choose the comfortable and more all-inclusive way because that way no one gets
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Comments 22
I know of whom you speak, yes. And I can tell you that I know far more about him than you do. And you are entirely off-base with your assumptions. Even worse - you haven't provided any answers, just repeated the same things that we've heard over and over and over and over again. The same. Meaningless. Words.
Would you like to know something? He surrendered his entire life, his entire being to Christianity and Christ. For ten years. He was a minister, he spread the word and prayed for forgiveness and still wondered why he felt filthy and miserable.
And, you know what? For ten years, I went through the same thing. I prayed, I read the Bible, I gave everythign I had, everything I was, and all I recieved in return was misery and depression and long nights full of paranoia about going to hell or being posessed by demons. Where was "Christ", then ( ... )
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Seriously, I know sort of what you mean. One reason amongst many that I stayed away from Christianity for so long was that I didn't want to "be like them". You know, like the televangelists and the "God hates faggers" and the abortion-clinic bombers and the Falwells and all those that the media just adore but who actually represent a tiny fraction of Christianity...and that tiny fraction has got it all wrong. In fact, there's only a tiny fraction that gets it right at all. And, oddly, that's just what the Bible said would happen as time went on. In any case, I want to be a part of ( ... )
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Couldn't put it better.
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Your answer to my challenge is pathetic, as it refuses to actually answer my challenge, which was for it's intent: "HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN MY DEEPLY SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE WHICH LEAD ME TO PAGANISM?" Your answer, in it's entirety is simply "Why Christianity is better." and falls back on the ole' No true Scottsman fallacy - which negates, as far as I'm concerned, your entire argument the moment you use it.
Nightwind, you don't know a single thing about me. You've just proven that. I never 'tried' Christianity, I WAS Christian - but your kind never accepts that. Never believes that, because then it throws a monkey-wrench in your perfect little belief system.
Surrender to God? I've got a quote for you. Winston Churchill, "WE SHALL NEVER SURRENDER!" And I never shall. I belong to ME.
This is my first, and only post in your journal. So I'll close in the same manner I close all of my rants with.
FUCK YOU.
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Way to spread a message of peace and tolerance.
Remember the Threefold Law?! Whatever you send out...
It will come back to bite you on the arse.
Everyone is entitled to thier own beliefs, and everyone's experiences are different, because of who they are and how they percieve things.
Nightwind spelled out her own experience, and your return attitude is to go off on one. Nice going.
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I don't think that's specific to Christianity, though - every spiritual path worth its salt is about surrender and devotion to the Divine. The very word "Islam", for instance, means "surrender/submission to God". As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong, since I was never a practicing Buddhist like you were), even Buddhism is about surrender - not to a personal God, but to the path of Buddha - and eradication of the ego. Christians don't have the monopoly on surrender.
I think the reason people are taking offence with your post is that it comes across like you're saying, "Christianity = radical surrender to God; every other spiritual path is just easy, feel-good self-improvement." (Note that I'm not saying that's necessarily what you intended to say; I'm saying that's how it comes across.) It's one thing to believe that Christ is the way to salvation; it's another thing to basically say that there's no sincere surrender outside of Christianity and everyone who follows a different path is just taking the ( ... )
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But why is it a legitimate belief, if one proclaims to be a Christian, to believe that there is more than one path? Jesus Himself said: "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matthew 7:13-14)
Those are all singular words there.
He also said of Himself, "I am the way and the truth and the life." (John 14:6)
Now, if one is not a Christian, then one can, of course, claim that there are a billion different and equally valid paths to God or truth or salvation. If one is not a Christian, then one can absolutely choose to believe whatever one wants to believe about how one can reach God. And most, of course, will choose the comfortable and more all-inclusive way because that way no one gets ( ... )
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