I don't think that's specific to Christianity, though - every spiritual path worth its salt is about surrender and devotion to the Divine. The very word "Islam", for instance, means "surrender/submission to God". As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong, since I was never a practicing Buddhist like you were), even Buddhism is about surrender - not to a personal God, but to the path of Buddha - and eradication of the ego. Christians don't have the monopoly on surrender.
I think the reason people are taking offence with your post is that it comes across like you're saying, "Christianity = radical surrender to God; every other spiritual path is just easy, feel-good self-improvement." (Note that I'm not saying that's necessarily what you intended to say; I'm saying that's how it comes across.) It's one thing to believe that Christ is the way to salvation; it's another thing to basically say that there's no sincere surrender outside of Christianity and everyone who follows a different path is just taking the
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As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong, since I was never a practicing Buddhist like you were), even Buddhism is about surrender - not to a personal God, but to the path of Buddha - and eradication of the ego. Christians don't have the monopoly on surrender."Buddhism -- at least the Tibetan, Therevadan sort that I practiced; there are many different beliefs that fall under the umbrella of "Buddhism," just as there are many beliefs that fall under the umbrella of "Christianity" -- was all about
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And, when I pray to God to do what He will to change me into the person that He wants me to be in Him, then I know that He will answer that prayer...but not necessarily in ways that I expect or even want. So, if one is looking for one thing to happen when one surrenders and it doesn't happen -- there's no "sign" -- then, yes, people become confused, at best. I did. When that happens, it generally happens because people are waiting for the Lord to do what they want or expect Him to do (To give them their "sign" or to feel a certain way or to become full of peace and happiness or whatever it is they prayed for) instead of waiting to understand what He wants them to do. This is why many people, I think, become disillusioned with the whole thing. They go into Christianity with certain expectations, as mphage -- at least from what he said, in that he asked God to know what the truth was and to know what church was the right one, etc. -- seemed to do, or they even outrightly demand things of God (as I did), and when those expectations aren't met
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I think the actual equation is more like, "True spirituality (on any path) = radical surrender to God as you relate to Him/Her/It; everything else = something else."
But why is it a legitimate belief, if one proclaims to be a Christian, to believe that there is more than one path? Jesus Himself said: "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matthew 7:13-14)
Those are all singular words there.
He also said of Himself, "I am the way and the truth and the life." (John 14:6)
Now, if one is not a Christian, then one can, of course, claim that there are a billion different and equally valid paths to God or truth or salvation. If one is not a Christian, then one can absolutely choose to believe whatever one wants to believe about how one can reach God. And most, of course, will choose the comfortable and more all-inclusive way because that way no one gets
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Not having the energy for a long reply right now, so just this:
I respect that you stand by your beliefs without yelling.
I'm not choosing the beliefs and convictions I currently hold because "that way no one gets offended". And I'm still on the way, which is why I can't answer everything off the cuff.
And no, I for my part wasn't angry and offended. Angry Devi looks different. (And for the record, I don't think posting Goatse was an appropriate response.)
"...but to say that Christianity has the monopoly on surrender and God-centred living would be rather arrogant, ne?"
It would be, but I didn't say that. Surrender as I was using the word doesn't mean just giving up something in your life (especially something that you want to give up anyway) or, necessarily, of having a "God-centered life." I meant it in the sense of which Chambers was speaking, which I quoted, so that should have been clear. To reiterate: it means giving up things that you don't want to give up, and it means, ideally, giving control of your life over to the Lord. Although, as I said, most people don't get to that point (I haven't), nor is it required in order to be "real Christian." I'm just saying -- again to reiterate so that people stop putting words into my mouth -- that if you do this even partially, then that's the path to getting the most out of your relationship to the Lord and the path to understanding Him. Doesn't mean you're not saved or not a Christian if you don't do it. It just means, as I said, that
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Pt....*gulp*...5 :)nightwind69November 4 2005, 10:40:36 UTC
"Paths are many, but Truth is one."
Like I said, if you're calling yourself a Christian who believes Jesus to be the Son of God (and not everyone who calls him/herself a Christian actually does believe that), then that's a difficult claim to uphold, from a Scriptural point of view. If you're not calling yourself that kind of Christian, then as I said you're free to believe whatever you want to believe. As a follower of Christ as the Son of God, I'm going to go with what Christ said Himself: That there is but one road and that that road is not well-travelled and that most people never find it. And that He is that road. So, yes, I absolutely believe that there is one and only one path to God, salvation, etc. But of course I do not demand the same of people who do not follow Christ as the Son of God.
And...that's all I've got time for today, folks. :)
I don't think that's specific to Christianity, though - every spiritual path worth its salt is about surrender and devotion to the Divine. The very word "Islam", for instance, means "surrender/submission to God". As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong, since I was never a practicing Buddhist like you were), even Buddhism is about surrender - not to a personal God, but to the path of Buddha - and eradication of the ego. Christians don't have the monopoly on surrender.
I think the reason people are taking offence with your post is that it comes across like you're saying, "Christianity = radical surrender to God; every other spiritual path is just easy, feel-good self-improvement." (Note that I'm not saying that's necessarily what you intended to say; I'm saying that's how it comes across.) It's one thing to believe that Christ is the way to salvation; it's another thing to basically say that there's no sincere surrender outside of Christianity and everyone who follows a different path is just taking the ( ... )
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But why is it a legitimate belief, if one proclaims to be a Christian, to believe that there is more than one path? Jesus Himself said: "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matthew 7:13-14)
Those are all singular words there.
He also said of Himself, "I am the way and the truth and the life." (John 14:6)
Now, if one is not a Christian, then one can, of course, claim that there are a billion different and equally valid paths to God or truth or salvation. If one is not a Christian, then one can absolutely choose to believe whatever one wants to believe about how one can reach God. And most, of course, will choose the comfortable and more all-inclusive way because that way no one gets ( ... )
Reply
I respect that you stand by your beliefs without yelling.
I'm not choosing the beliefs and convictions I currently hold because "that way no one gets offended". And I'm still on the way, which is why I can't answer everything off the cuff.
And no, I for my part wasn't angry and offended. Angry Devi looks different. (And for the record, I don't think posting Goatse was an appropriate response.)
Reply
It would be, but I didn't say that. Surrender as I was using the word doesn't mean just giving up something in your life (especially something that you want to give up anyway) or, necessarily, of having a "God-centered life." I meant it in the sense of which Chambers was speaking, which I quoted, so that should have been clear. To reiterate: it means giving up things that you don't want to give up, and it means, ideally, giving control of your life over to the Lord. Although, as I said, most people don't get to that point (I haven't), nor is it required in order to be "real Christian." I'm just saying -- again to reiterate so that people stop putting words into my mouth -- that if you do this even partially, then that's the path to getting the most out of your relationship to the Lord and the path to understanding Him. Doesn't mean you're not saved or not a Christian if you don't do it. It just means, as I said, that ( ... )
Reply
Like I said, if you're calling yourself a Christian who believes Jesus to be the Son of God (and not everyone who calls him/herself a Christian actually does believe that), then that's a difficult claim to uphold, from a Scriptural point of view. If you're not calling yourself that kind of Christian, then as I said you're free to believe whatever you want to believe. As a follower of Christ as the Son of God, I'm going to go with what Christ said Himself: That there is but one road and that that road is not well-travelled and that most people never find it. And that He is that road. So, yes, I absolutely believe that there is one and only one path to God, salvation, etc. But of course I do not demand the same of people who do not follow Christ as the Son of God.
And...that's all I've got time for today, folks. :)
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