but I'm like sweet seventeen a lot

[musesfool]

What the hell is going on with gmail? first it was telling me it couldn't connect, then it wouldn't load at all (though iGoogle loaded fine), and now it will only load in html view. WTF

Comments

[hiddenw]

I used to read Sam/Dean because fictional incest and the whole isolated, us against the world thing is so my kink, but now? Not so much. The way things are going right now makes me want Dean to have a life that's beyond Sam so badly!

However, I think I'd like the girl!Sam/Dean dynamic more. And the plus side of girl!Sam for me would be the absence of Jared Padalecki. Not that I dislike him, but he's just not my particular brand of pretty and I want my brand of pretty when I'm reading about two people getting it on.

But, on the other hand, I don't think girl!Sam/Dean would bring me the same emotional impact as boy!Sam/Dean because that's what I see week to week. That's the Sam I know even if I don't particularly like him that much.

[musesfool]

The way things are going right now makes me want Dean to have a life that's beyond Sam so badly!

See, that's how I am ALL THE TIME. Like, yes, they'll always be ridiculously close, but I want Dean to have a girlfriend and kids and a life.

I mean, I want Sam to have that, too, but I really really want it for Dean. Sigh.

However, I think I'd like the girl!Sam/Dean dynamic more. And the plus side of girl!Sam for me would be the absence of Jared Padalecki. Not that I dislike him, but he's just not my particular brand of pretty and I want my brand of pretty when I'm reading about two people getting it on. Heh. Yes. I know he is attractive, but he generally doesn't turn my crank, so when I write girl!Sam, I imagine her as Katee Sackhoff, and that is a very pretty picture. *g* Girl!Sam is an odd thing - obviously, I try to make her as much like canon!Sam as possible except with some differences - she's essentially Sam, with some changes. It's like any other AU, really, though I don't know if I would love the show in the same way if

[hiddenw]

My problem with Katee Sackhoff as girl!Sam is I don't envision her as being younger than Dean.

[musesfool]

Oh, that's interesting, because I am pretty sure Katee is a year or two younger than Jensen.

[troubleinchina]

I was having problems with gmail earlier this evening. *shakes fist at Google*

I have very particular tastes when it comes to fic. For reasons I can't put my finger on, I don't like what I call a "layering of kinks". (Not a good way of putting it, but it works for me.) So, I have no issues with slash, but I have issues with incest-slash. I don't mind hetcest at all. I can deal with generational-stuff, het or slash, if it's not incest.

I have a fondness for your girl!Sam fics, but I don't read any other Wincest.

[musesfool]

Yeah, I know part of it is just the unexplainable kink-squick response, but it's interesting to me how some people are much less squicked by slash incest than hetcest, whereas I am generally just not interested in slash incest pairings, while I totally ping for hetcest.

And I get what you mean about layering the kinks on. Some things I like by themselves, but in combination with other things, they become a turn off, or vice versa.

I have a fondness for your girl!Sam fics, but I don't read any other Wincest.

Oh, cool. Thank you. *g*

[raincitygirl]

I think a lot of it comes down to size. Our visual impression of Sam is always as the tallest guy in the room. He's certainly bigger than the actor who plays Dean (who I keep thinking is short when I see him in SPN. Then I see him in other stuff playing against normal-sized people and remember he's not short at all). So if someone's reading a story, the younger, less emotionally powerful sibling is more physically powerful than the older one. Even if Girl!Sam is tall, Dean will still always be bigger and heavier, more likely to win if it came to a physical confrontation. So when you put that into a situation with inherently dodgy power dynamics like incest, having the older sibling be more powerful both physically and emotionally can get....uncomfortable for the reader. A little too much reality in our cornflakes.

[musesfool]

having the older sibling be more powerful both physically and emotionally can get....uncomfortable for the reader.

I do get that, but I guess I never ever see Dean as having the upper hand emotionally when it comes to Sam - or, I don't think he ever feels like he has it, despite the obviously ishy power dynamics involved in such a relationship, especially when Sam's still a teenager - so I feel like Sam still has quite a bit of power in the relationship, even if in the end, she'd be physically weaker.

Of course, I absolutely cannot suspend my disbelief to believe pre-Stanford canon!Sam/Dean wincest, yet I have no trouble whatsoever revisiting the scenario repeatedly if Sam's a girl, so some of it is just kink without real explanation.

[smilla02]

I'm another person who probably isn't the target to your question, but this is interesting so I hope you don't mind me chiming in.
Incidentally, all the comments above makes me want to read your girl!Sam stories because I'm an incredibly curious person and you've made me curious.

Incest between Dean and Sam usually doesn't work for me because there's already a fucked-up level of co-dependency between them. There's already a power struggle and, again, a fucked-up power dynamic between Dean and Sam that the sex becomes off-putting for me. It has to do mostly with Dean and the way canon has made Dean all about Sam in a fundamental way (Sam is also all about Dean, but not at the same level). Adding sex to the mix, which is something Dean enjoys regardless and indipendently of Sam, takes away something from Dean I'm not ready to see him losing. Also, sex is a point of connection for Dean with other people and a chance for Dean to have someone in his life that is not Sam

[musesfool]

Adding sex to the mix, which is something Dean enjoys regardless and indipendently of Sam, takes away something from Dean I'm not ready to see him losing. Also, sex is a point of connection for Dean with other people and a chance for Dean to have someone in his life that is not Sam.

This is a great way of putting it. I do enjoy wincest, but I also like to think about them having a future that allows other people in, where they are allowed to have more than each other, because I think they're broken and they need that to heal a little.

But the point here is the incest between brother and sister. Admittedly, it's not one of my kinks, but the identification with the situation (I have an older brother) would probably hit me very hard, while I can put some distance between myself and my emotions and the ones in a story when it's m/m incest.I guess maybe there is an identification issue for some people? I have an older brother and I've never wanted to sleep with him, though when I was a teenager I certainly had crushes on his friends,

[jaydecrow]

Personally, the only wincest I read is girl!Sam. This probably says something about me

[musesfool]

But hetcest reminds us of all those uncomfortable feelings we might have had growing up, if we had siblings of different gender and especially if we were close to them. Adolescent crushes are weird; girls often get them on other girls, even though they may not grow up to identify themselves as lesbians and they do in fact get funny hero-worship type crushes on their older brothers.

I suppose that is definitely a possibility.

I'm often left wondering if people slash Sam and Dean not so much for the sex as that they are the only two people in the world who can be for each other what they are; family. It's how they were raised.

I think that is very much a part of the appeal - they are also the only ones who know what they've gone through - no one else can quite understand them the way they could understand each other (if they chose to communicate argh).