You know, I have many diehard Snape fans on my flist and f-of-list, and you know I like all y'all lots and lots but *puts on own crazy hardcore OTP tinhat* ( spoilers for DH, don't click if you ship Snape/Lupin )
Re: Nice is different than goodmusesfoolJuly 23 2007, 14:30:30 UTC
Yeah, I've seen people talk about his behavior in the books being redeemed and I'm like, um. No, not completely. He doesn't get a free pass for his treatment of the kids during the first six books. I am willing to be a little more flexible about his time as headmaster, because I believe he tried to protect them as much as he could without blowing his cover - sending Neville et al. out with Hagrid for detention rather than using Crucio etc. But overall he wasn't a nice guy.
I mean, Sirius and Lupin and James all had more than a bit of bastardy about them as well, so it's not like I can't see it in my favorite characters either, but Snape was a bitter, unpleasant man.
Re: Nice is different than goodlacylu42July 23 2007, 14:54:18 UTC
The good thing is, I didn't get the impression that JK was trying to apologize it all away either. Some of the remarks Dumbledore said to Snape in Snape's memories made me think she truly relished him being unpleasant AND good. That's a hard character to write, and a hard stereotype to break out of, and I think she did a pretty good job.
Re: Nice is different than goodmusesfoolJuly 23 2007, 15:00:56 UTC
Oh, I don't think JKR was either. It's fandom doing that. And you know, it's often the *fans* of a particular character or ship who send me screaming the other way when I am mostly neutral or just mildly dislike them in the source.
Um. I rather like Snape, all things considered, but honestly -- I think that if you go back and look at the memory where he takes George's ear off, that he was aiming for Remus. Not that attempted murder is necessarily an impediment to shipping, but it ought to be taken into account.
I rather like that Snape got explained without being made any nicer: in fact he was clearly an unpleasant person from the beginning.
Bah! What's a little attempted murder between lovers?
No, seriously, though, I think he tried cursing Remus because someone else was going to kill him, so it was kind of a lesser of two evils thing, and he missed.
I rather like that Snape got explained without being made any nicer: in fact he was clearly an unpleasant person from the beginning.
And yet still Lily's best friend up until he finally stepped over that one line. I really liked that, actually. That he was still a petty, awful man, yet he had one really good friend for a while, and he helped save the world.
I really liked that, actually. That he was still a petty, awful man, yet he had one really good friend for a while, and he helped save the world.
And what struck me as well, was that in some ways he and James and Sirius weren't all that different, at least in terms of thinking it was fine for their friends to torment others -- it's all in good fun -- and that they all got over that, and they all helped save the world, but it didn't erase their flaws.
And yet still Lily's best friend up until he finally stepped over that one line. I really liked that, actually. That he was still a petty, awful man, yet he had one really good friend for a while, and he helped save the world.
I just realized I like what that says about Lily, too, who can sometimes come across as this perfect mother figure (which, since it's from Harry's POV most of the time, makes sense), but her best friend growing up was a nasty, petty, mean guy, and yet she liked him. It gives her layers, and I like that.
As for all the Sirius/Remus and Remus/Snape and Snape fan insanity you talked about in the post itself, word on all that.
I agree. I think Snape, as a fictional character, is JKR's greatest creation. He's wonderfully complex and I love him--as a character.
As a person? I think he's horrible. Yes, he's incredibly brave and selfless and heroic. He's also a giant dick. He psychologically tortures children--FOR NO REASON. He's a total jerk.
Doesn't mean I don't think he's an awesome character. I just don't understand how people feel like he gets a bum rap when...well...yeah.
I've come to the conclusion that Lupin left Tonks not only because he feared the responsibility/letdown/etc., but also because he realized, when she became pregnant, that he married her in a fit of grief over Sirius and that he could never love her or the baby enough.
Comments 31
(The comment has been removed)
I mean, Sirius and Lupin and James all had more than a bit of bastardy about them as well, so it's not like I can't see it in my favorite characters either, but Snape was a bitter, unpleasant man.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Still can't believe she offed Remus. :(
Reply
Well, Snape got his noble death and Remus died, too. Sigh.
Reply
I rather like that Snape got explained without being made any nicer: in fact he was clearly an unpleasant person from the beginning.
Reply
No, seriously, though, I think he tried cursing Remus because someone else was going to kill him, so it was kind of a lesser of two evils thing, and he missed.
I rather like that Snape got explained without being made any nicer: in fact he was clearly an unpleasant person from the beginning.
And yet still Lily's best friend up until he finally stepped over that one line. I really liked that, actually. That he was still a petty, awful man, yet he had one really good friend for a while, and he helped save the world.
Reply
And what struck me as well, was that in some ways he and James and Sirius weren't all that different, at least in terms of thinking it was fine for their friends to torment others -- it's all in good fun -- and that they all got over that, and they all helped save the world, but it didn't erase their flaws.
Reply
I just realized I like what that says about Lily, too, who can sometimes come across as this perfect mother figure (which, since it's from Harry's POV most of the time, makes sense), but her best friend growing up was a nasty, petty, mean guy, and yet she liked him. It gives her layers, and I like that.
As for all the Sirius/Remus and Remus/Snape and Snape fan insanity you talked about in the post itself, word on all that.
Reply
I agree. I think Snape, as a fictional character, is JKR's greatest creation. He's wonderfully complex and I love him--as a character.
As a person? I think he's horrible. Yes, he's incredibly brave and selfless and heroic. He's also a giant dick. He psychologically tortures children--FOR NO REASON. He's a total jerk.
Doesn't mean I don't think he's an awesome character. I just don't understand how people feel like he gets a bum rap when...well...yeah.
Reply
The OTP reigns!
Reply
Leave a comment