so i was reading this morning...

[much_ado]

...in a classic example of all things that went wrong as soon as women were taught to read. you know, we think about things. and we put ideas together in strange and unusual ways. it's not as simple as the whole "men/mars, women/venus" phenomenon would have the pulp-reading masses believe, but there's definitely a difference in how our brains are

Comments

I Just Have To Say...

[valgarth]

...that by the time I reached the end paragraph of this post the noise in my head was so loud that I couldn't even finish reading. Obviously I'm going to have to come back to this and try again, but maybe not just right now.

[lightcastle]

but there's definitely a difference in how our brains are wired to get from Point A to Point B. (seriously, i am now even armed with statistical research, and unlimited access to more, to prove just how different... but i digress.)

I remain unconvinced of any innate wiring, to be honest.

[lightcastle]

(BTW, fair warning: i've apparently started to get really twitchy about the cultural assumption that sexuality *is* intimacy, or at least is the only kind of commonly-acceptable intimacy we acknowledge. it's not quite become a button for me, but it's heading that way. and it's not just because i come from a personal history where sex and vulnerability were anything BUT connected.)

Yeah. Button for me. Has been for a long time.

they often get red with embarrassment and claim they don't know how to talk about the subject,And i sometimes feel my penchant for asking for clearer information is viewed as pressuring and problematic in such cases. I've struggled with the "how can I ask for the information/give them space to safely volunteer the information" issue in the past, do so in the present, and I am sure I will in the future. Hell, I've proposed giving someone a list of all the things I might enjoy doing to/with her and having her just come back with anything absolutely out crossed off,a nd any other notes she wants to put in added

The questions (damn comment limit)

[lightcastle]

when you feel you or a partner saying one thing but meaning something else [...] what do you do?

Already in an encounter, I am likely to try and adjust to what the nonverbal communication is telling me. If I feel very lost, I will probably ask verbally for clarification. Mind you, due to personal history, I am more comfortable responding to a non-verbal no while there is a verbal yes than a non-verbal yes when there is a verbal no. Thus in both cases, incongruent communication is more likely to get me to stop or slow down what I am doing.

what motivates it when it's you doing the verbal or nonverbal obfuscation, and what would have to happen for you to be willing to have been authentic with your partner in that moment?I like to think once sex has started I am fairly good at staying congruent but that is probably just pride and vanity. It probably has as much to do with mostly having had been involved with submissive women over the last few years. I suspect there are less occasions for this as initiator/driver of what's going on. I

I'm not overly cocky in my technique, but...

[musicman]

It is like other aspects of life where one wants to find more directness and work at it from different ways. Beating around the bush too much is simply not productive. The more veiled one becomes in asking, the less clear the answer. Like the Monty Python question "wink wink nudge nudge Does she go?", a veiled and subtle approach when it comes to sexual satisfaction often produces unclear and confusing data. So I try, gently and softly, and in the heat of the moment, or before, or after -- or maybe during a five minute break before continuing -- "do you think if I did such and such, it might feel good for you? Wanna try

Re: I'm not overly cocky in my technique, but...

[lightcastle]

and if she seems afraid of it, or bothered, or intrigued it is fairly evident.

I would argue that this is not always the case. (If it was evident, we wouldn't need the conversation.)

You tend to need lots of lube for the fakers.
Oh dear. "How wet she is" as measure of interest?

Re: I'm not overly cocky in my technique, but...

[musicman]

Not always as a matter of interest -- how wet she is can be also a matter of body chemistry. But in my experience that is then reason to try other measures, because also in my experience, dry is not good during sex. I'm 58 and have never met a woman who even once said that dry was in any way better. But I'm willing to learn new things.

As for others not noticing when their partner is reticent about the subject or not having a good time or even an orgasm -- I agree that many people don't know how to handle that. Some are as observant as lumps on a log. I'm just sharing my own experience, such as it is. YMMV

Re: I'm not overly cocky in my technique, but...

[redhotlips]

"Oh dear. "How wet she is" as measure of interest?"

I knew this would come up. LOL

Assuming consent is there, and the sex act will happen. He is skipping over many, many steps in the communication (that he does, but doesn't think of as communication, because his head just isn't framing it that way) before the 'how wet is she' measure.

again asuming consent, interest and intent in sharing a sex act, gauging how aroused a partner is, can be a form of non -verbal communication from her to him... or perhaps a case of interpretation on his part since communication usually has a component of intent to communicate, and one's body being aroused may not be an intent to communicate (unless it can communicate on a bio level? hmm. interesting thought)