I guess my point was that one assumption about how someone feels often leads to reciprocal one -- his assumption that I didn't mind if he didn't call when he'd said he would fed my assumption that he didn't care about me.
I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt every time it happened; but as you say in your post, when it happens regularly and often, you learn that the other person doesn't care about your feelings enough to prioritize them above short-term wants and inconveniences. And that, for me, leads me to conclude that they don't care about me, because if they did, they would make the effort to avoid letting me down.
much_ado: why do you automatically jump to "he doesn't care"? are there no other options or explanations for the person's actions? why do you automatically assume the worst?
mzrowan: one assumption about how someone feels often leads to reciprocal one -- his assumption that I didn't mind if he didn't call when he'd said he would fed my assumption that he didn't care about me.
I'm having trouble seeing how the jumping to conclusions or worst assumptions, that mzrowan and blk (below) do vary significantly from comments you have made in your post.
"he'd somehow gotten from recognizing i might have a need to know his timelines (as witnessed by his initial offering of a set time) to suddenly and deliberately deciding that my previously-identified potential need to know wasn't important to him after all."
I understand you are quoting Matthew directly with "Oh, it's okay if I stay out later than I told her I would; we have no plans together, there's nothing I need to do at home, she doesn't care when I come home."I see your reading this as his (as you say,
( ... )
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. However, I'll try to elaborate on my position.
I hold people (particularly partners) to what they say. If he says he'll be home by this time, or will call me tomorrow, or will make time to have a conversation by next week, etc, and it doesn't happen, I feel lied to and my trust is hurt.
I am generally ok with -changes- in plan. E.g., if he has said he'll be home at 9, and 8 rolls around and he calls me to change the agreement ("things are getting interesting; I may stay up until 11"), that's probably fine. It's only when 11 rolls around and I've heard nothing that I get upset.
I would much MUCH rather there be no initial agreement ("I just can't commit to a timeframe on that") than have one be set and broken with no warning.
In general, I try to be flexible with expectations around timeframes, since I know most people I know don't pay as much attention to them, but in return, I absolutely need the agreements that ARE made voluntarily to be kept.
I know some people who refer to this as the "I didn't know there was a plan" problem. That if someone says "we should go out to chinese tonight" that the person proposing it may mean "we should do something of some kind" and the person hearing it hears "This is the plan and any deviations will be reported."
Yes, I've been in that situation, where I am likely to take random suggestions/thoughts as Plans, and run away with them. I know I am more likely to do that when I am not given as many things to except as I need to feel secure in a general schedule, so I've learned to ask for more explicit agreements on other things, and also to try to double-check what I am hearing before putting weight on it.
other alternatives?much_adoJuly 23 2007, 20:28:59 UTC
and it doesn't happen, I feel lied to and my trust is hurt.
why do you automatically jump to "lied to"? are there no other options or explanations for the person's actions? why do you automatically assume the worst?
Re: other alternatives?blkJuly 23 2007, 20:54:57 UTC
Hm. As I interpret, if I ask him to make a commitment to something ("Will you get me an answer by tuesday?") and he agrees to that commitment ("Yes, I will do that") and the commitment isn't kept (with no further communication), then he didn't keep his word. I see that more as a stated observation than a judgment. What assumptions do you see me making?
I don't automatically attribute maliciousness to it (which perhaps "lied" implies to some people?). I'm open to explanations, and I'm sympathetic to disasters arising, to plans going awry, and even to some amount of absentmindedness. But when a statement is made voluntarily, and no update/correction is made (or attempted?) before it ends up being untrue, then yes, I do feel lied to.
I'm Matthew.
Reply
I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt every time it happened; but as you say in your post, when it happens regularly and often, you learn that the other person doesn't care about your feelings enough to prioritize them above short-term wants and inconveniences. And that, for me, leads me to conclude that they don't care about me, because if they did, they would make the effort to avoid letting me down.
Reply
mzrowan: one assumption about how someone feels often leads to reciprocal one -- his assumption that I didn't mind if he didn't call when he'd said he would fed my assumption that he didn't care about me.
I'm having trouble seeing how the jumping to conclusions or worst assumptions, that mzrowan and blk (below) do vary significantly from comments you have made in your post.
"he'd somehow gotten from recognizing i might have a need to know his timelines (as witnessed by his initial offering of a set time) to suddenly and deliberately deciding that my previously-identified potential need to know wasn't important to him after all."
I understand you are quoting Matthew directly with "Oh, it's okay if I stay out later than I told her I would; we have no plans together, there's nothing I need to do at home, she doesn't care when I come home."I see your reading this as his (as you say, ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Reply
I hold people (particularly partners) to what they say. If he says he'll be home by this time, or will call me tomorrow, or will make time to have a conversation by next week, etc, and it doesn't happen, I feel lied to and my trust is hurt.
I am generally ok with -changes- in plan. E.g., if he has said he'll be home at 9, and 8 rolls around and he calls me to change the agreement ("things are getting interesting; I may stay up until 11"), that's probably fine. It's only when 11 rolls around and I've heard nothing that I get upset.
I would much MUCH rather there be no initial agreement ("I just can't commit to a timeframe on that") than have one be set and broken with no warning.
In general, I try to be flexible with expectations around timeframes, since I know most people I know don't pay as much attention to them, but in return, I absolutely need the agreements that ARE made voluntarily to be kept.
Reply
I'm quite a lot like you :)
Reply
Causes lots of problems.
Reply
Reply
why do you automatically jump to "lied to"? are there no other options or explanations for the person's actions? why do you automatically assume the worst?
Reply
I don't automatically attribute maliciousness to it (which perhaps "lied" implies to some people?). I'm open to explanations, and I'm sympathetic to disasters arising, to plans going awry, and even to some amount of absentmindedness. But when a statement is made voluntarily, and no update/correction is made (or attempted?) before it ends up being untrue, then yes, I do feel lied to.
Reply
Leave a comment