The Great Debate - Are Napoleon and Illya "canon?"

[vmccooley]

There was an interesting discussion over on Tumblr about subtext and whether Napoleon/Illya is just fan invention. I thought I'd share my own contribution to the matter.

1968 - "We have each other."

Comments

[lindafishes8]

Very Nice! I read that David came up with that line, "We have each other."

[vmccooley]

That's really interesting. It's possibly the show's most memorable line and it sums up their relationship perfectly.

[laurose8]

When I first watched it as a child, I accepted that Napoleon and Illya were Best Friends; and it was meant for children originally.

I'm afraid I've forgotten the name, but I did read a university critic say that they were a modern adaption of the Hero Twins. There does seem something fraternal in some of the interactions.

(edit: not meaning anything against the slash writers.)

[vmccooley]

I like that interpretation. I can see them as brothers and I can also see them as more.

[sidhe_uaine42]

Like Gilgamesh and Enkidu in The Epic of Gilgamesh? I'm just curious.

[laurose8]

Less. I find Gilgamesh and Enkidu definitely slashier than the Hero Twins.

[leethet]

I've heard strong opinions on both sides, but it strikes me subtext is in the eye of the beholder. For me, I would suspect that the writers of the show in general probably (probably because I don't know but assume heterosexuality as the norm) didn't mean anything but playful friendship. That said, if someone slipped in a little line or physical joke that hinted at sex, it wouldn't be the first or last time that's happened on a show.

Personally, I don't perceive any suggested sexuality between them on the show. I perceive friendship and the subtext is of a deep friendship ("A very good friend of mine" kinds of things). I translate that into slash by my own choosing.

Others' mileage can, and certainly does, vary. :-)

[vmccooley]

I agree about the eye of the beholder. Slash or not, their relationship is special.

[elmey]

I perceive friendship and the subtext is of a deep friendship ("A very good friend of mine" kinds of things). I translate that into slash by my own choosing.

That's pretty much how I look at it too. I'm a bit fascinated by the way some of the young tumblrites who are now looking at the series are going in expecting slash--so of course they see it everywhere. Lots of talk about how such and such is really "queer coding". I just don't think that's what was happening at the time. Sure a wink here and there maybe, but those jokes happen among any group of people working together for a while.

[leethet]

I'm sure this is just me being old, but I've read comments about "queer coding" and things like that from a number of significantly younger fen, and I can only say we see through the eyes we've got, and they're trained based in the culture of their time, but I think they're seeing what they want to see because it's a philosophy they approve of. Maybe we all do that. :-) But the younger fen don't know what the era was like in the way people who were there (and who were attentive to culture and entertainment culture in particular) know. Twenty years ago, ten years ago - sure. There has been more fannish involvement in entertainment and closer ties between fans and shows, and an openness to homosexuality. Before then? Not so much.

[leethet]

You know what - I really like those two photos together! Looks like the same suits, even, and both men look great 15 years later. This is a nice collage (if you can say that about only two photos).

[vmccooley]

I like how they're "mirroring" each other with their hands in both pictures. They do that quite a bit.

[elmey]

They do don't they, I like that too.

[vmccooley]

This is one of my favorites.

[gevr]

I really don´t care if they are slashy or not, I love them both together. At least they are very, very good friends, and they are great together. Which is very OK for me :-)

[vmccooley]

I'm with you. Friends or more, as long as they're together, it's all good.