Homosexuality in Britain (5th/6th century AC): Celts, Saxons, Picts and Scots

[lucre_noin]

I usually write a lot of arthurian stories but this time I'd love to document well myself about homosexuality and arthurian times.
The story is in 5th/6th century and the societies/cultures in the stories are: Celts, Picts, Scots, Saxons and Celts conquered by Romans. And, of course, one of the male characters is in love with another male character.

Comments

[lytrigian]

The question is rather confused. Why, if you're writing an Arthurian story set in the 5-6th centuries, are you interested in pre-Roman British mores on homosexuality?

Arthur and his real historical antecedents were, of course, not only post-Roman conquest, but also post-Christianization. The British Celts were converted by the 5th century when the Roman Legions withdrew, but the island had to be re-converted after the pagan Anglo-Saxon migrations/invasions. British Celtic attitudes of the time would be Christian, not pre-Roman.

[sollersuk]

Nah, I've got something about that on my Nutter Book shelf. Sure there were Sarmatian units in Britain, but by the 5th century their descendants were well and truly Roman and all their maternal ancestors for generations were local women. And by the 5th century Sarmatians in their homeland had much too much to worry about to go off as mercenaries - even if they could get past the Goths and the Huns.

It's much more fun to play with the Welsh idea that Brits were descended from the Scythians.

[lucre_noin]

I love the idea of Arthur as Welsh. I don't read many essays about Arthurian times because I usually go for novels but do you know some essay that talks about the possibility of Arthur being Welsh or Scottish? I've only read The Keys to Avalon.

[sollersuk]

"Welsh" is an anachronistic term for the time; the word was in use, but simply used by all Germans to mean all non-Germans (being a Cymres myself, I intensely dislike the word). The nearest equivalent to Wales was the province of Britannia Prima which also included the West Country.

It's unlikely. As all Britons had been disarmed centuries before, there was no large scale fighting tradition to draw on; only experience of skirmishes with Irish raiders, which were so unsuccessful that most of Demetia became an Irish kingdom under Agricola son of Tacitus (unusual names for an Irishman; an Irish Arthur would be more likely). This was why, throughout the West, German troops became so important.

And Romanised. Gundobad, later King of the Burgundians, and Theodoric, later King of the Goths, were not just Roman citizens but Patricians, and Theodoric was Consul one year.

[lucre_noin]

I know it's anachronistic and I used it in the geographical sense : D
So there aren't any other essays D: that's sad.

[corvideye]

Oh, I didn't say I thought it was likely. Just fun. But I do wonder what happened to the Sarmatian auxiliaries that were sent to Hadrian's wall, what little remnants they might have left in local culture for a few years...

Brits from Scythians... hadn't heard that one.

[sollersuk]

Very little; most children assimilate their mother's culture, especially when the fathers are busy in occupations that don't include them (such as farming or trades). There were auxiliaries in Britain from all over the Empire, but nothing seems to have taken root from their cultures. Celtic culture, on the other hand, was very resilient. Some people are disappointed when they discover that carved stone heads of Celtic appearance in the Peak District are from the last couple of centuries, but I'm fascinated that it's still felt to be a lucky thing to do.

I'd have to check my sources, but when the early writers discuss how the Brits got here in the first place they usually say that originally they were descended from Scythians. There's also a tradition that at least some inhabitants of Scotland came from Egypt, which is creepy, because there are a number of grammatical features in Welsh that are like Ancient Egyptian.

[atheneglaukopis]

Ah, the Semitic substrate in the British Isles hypothesis. :) See Theo Vennemann for more on the subject (also on the subject of Semitic loanwords in Germanic). Most scholars I know think that the syntactic similarities between Celtic and Semitic belong to the realm of typology rather than genetic relation.

[orthent]

You mean, as expounded in Bernard S. Bachrach's History of the Alans in the West? The guy who thinks the feigned retreat tactic couldn't possibly have been simultaneously by two or more peoples?