Homosexuality in Britain (5th/6th century AC): Celts, Saxons, Picts and Scots

[lucre_noin]

I usually write a lot of arthurian stories but this time I'd love to document well myself about homosexuality and arthurian times.
The story is in 5th/6th century and the societies/cultures in the stories are: Celts, Picts, Scots, Saxons and Celts conquered by Romans. And, of course, one of the male characters is in love with another male character.

Comments

[lytrigian]

The question is rather confused. Why, if you're writing an Arthurian story set in the 5-6th centuries, are you interested in pre-Roman British mores on homosexuality?

Arthur and his real historical antecedents were, of course, not only post-Roman conquest, but also post-Christianization. The British Celts were converted by the 5th century when the Roman Legions withdrew, but the island had to be re-converted after the pagan Anglo-Saxon migrations/invasions. British Celtic attitudes of the time would be Christian, not pre-Roman.

[sollersuk]

Well, as I say above, the Picts do seem to have been Celts - I'd use "peoples" rather than "tribes" in this context as there were over a dozen tribes in Britain that we know the names of.

The Scots were Celts too, from Ireland, though speaking a different form of the language.

At the very least, one can say that the original tribes in Britain, those in Ireland and those in Caledonia all spoke Celtic languages and had very similar customs. I can't say anything about their racial origins and don't want to anyway.

[transemacabre]

Re: native Pictish religion, what little we know comes from the Christian saints sent to convert them and the biographers of those saints, so not unbiased sources. Here is what they say, for what it's worth.

There's several accounts of Picts worshipping "demons", from the biography of St. Columba (who is attested as casting out a demon from a well that had been worshipped as a god by the Picts) and in the 15th century Scotichronicon. The biography of St. Ninian states that the Picts worshipped "deaf and dumb idiots", and that Ninian encountered some of their holy men who professed to have magic powers

[charlycrash]

I wondered that, but I figured the OP meant something more like "unaffected by Roman civilisation".

[lytrigian]

You'd have to go north of the Wall for that, no? Mind you, that's not an implausible location for Arthur either, as there are Arthurian traditions from that area too.

[charlycrash]

Tbh, if you're writing about Arthur most historical realism has gone out of the window already :P

Perhaps I'm giving a bit too much benefit of the doubt, but I wondered if the OP just meant "Dark Ages" for "Arthurian times".

[lucre_noin]

About Arthur: That's true, that's the reason I will chose what tribes and traditions I find more interesting.

I'd actually love to write the arthurian story in the 5th century and my looking for "medieval" was more related to the fact that if I cannot find anything historical enough I'll probably go for a Malory-kind-of-setting.

And yes, it's all related to the fact that English is not my first language also so I often create some confusion.

[sollersuk]

*guards manuscript jealously* I'm currently writing a novel with a very unorthodox take on Arthur's background (which is why I have four shelves of books focussing on the period)

[lucre_noin]

: D I usually write Malory-fanfictions but this time I'd like to have a more important historical basis.
(in fact XD I only have four books on Arthurian legends and none about historical issues!).

yay, it's wonderful to meet other arthurian fans : D

[rhiannon_s]

How unorthodox? Unorthodox enough that they have cans of beer, tomatoes, and fifty-pence pieces? 'Cause the BBC have already done that.

[lucre_noin]

true X°DD may I quote your reply on fuckyeaharthuriana tumblr?

[rhiannon_s]

I have no idea what that is, so yeah feel free.

[sollersuk]

Unorthodox in that Arthur is half Saxon.

Reasoning:

1. Welsh sources say a lot about his family on his mother's side but next to nothing about his father's family. Illegitimacy or even adultery are unlikely to be the issue because Welsh society was very relaxed about them, but a family from the "wrong" side (particularly from the POV of the time of writing the stories) could well be swept under the carpet.

2. The vast majority of Roman generals from the late 4th century on were German.

There's a third, very strong reason but that's being kept carefully under cover for now (spoilers, sweetie!)

[lucre_noin]

OT: An half Saxon Arthur is a wonderful idea : D
Will you publish the chapters on a site or will you wait to publish all the novel?

[sollersuk]

The current one is the build-up to the main character's meeting with Arthur and I've reached a critical point; what's written so far is being critiqued in a writing group and it's not going anywhere till I'm happy with it.

Another reason for the choice is that the Welsh tales don't actually talk much about Arthur fighting Saxons (the main point I can think about is that Esla Big-Knife, who's clearly a Saxon, fights against him at Badon but later becomes one of his men). I suspect his chief opponents were the Irish, who didn't prevail in Wales and the West of England in the way that they did in Scotland, though there were a large number of settlements.

[corvideye]

My favorite unorthodox approach is the Sarmatian one...