I am commenting because I have read this, but I am lazy and exhausted so have nothing interesting to say.
Except that I've been hoarding my catty and subjective opinions about a lot of porn writing and someday I will hide out with you and confess. I am actually quite annoyed by how picky I am about what sex writing is actually hot to me. SIGH.
I am actually quite annoyed by how picky I am about what sex writing is actually hot to me.
I am actually quite annoyed by how non-picky and yet specific I am about same.
That is, it doesn't have to be good writing to make me hot. But it has to hit a number of kinks, and if it does, even in laundry list form, usually I'm there.
I've seen it all, I've seen the dark I've seen the brightness in one little spark. I've seen what I chose and I've seen what I need, And that is enough, to want more would be greed. I've seen what I was and I know what I'll be I've seen it all - there is no more to see!
Unpopular Fannish Opinion #1: Fandom, I owe you nothing.
What? I was pretty sure fandom owed me cookies.
Liking characters as people vs. liking them as characters.
This is an easy one for me. I mean, gosh do I love the character of Jim Profit. But he'd kill me and sell my loved ones into slavery if it would get G&G stock to go up a quarter-point. I wouldn't like that guy in person. Heck, my last boss I did not like at all, but he'd make for a great character.
Fanfic as the fulfillment which canon lacks.
Nobody likes a tease. But teases bring people back again and again. Until they get sick of you.
I do know that I spent four hours today staring at a list of concepts, but didn't know what plot to give to the concepts, so ended up making this post.
I'm like that, except way less prolific. My fandom conversations tend to go this way. Lots and lots of ideas and little shape. Which is part of why I haven't written fic in so long. All I have are hooks.
When I want to write fic I don't want to tell a story so much as say something
( ... )
I actually have this list of All The Things I Don't Owe Fandom, and most have parenthetical stipulations to the effect of: "unless I promised you otherwise."
Here is the sad story on the cookies: I made them for you and two other people to whom I promised them a month ago. And they are still sitting in my freezer. WTF, self, WTF.
I mean, gosh do I love the character of Jim Profit. [...] I wouldn't like that guy in person.
Well, I think with some characters, it's pretty easy. Some you love as characters, hate as people, that's it. But then there are some you *care* about as people, even when they are people you would not like, which seems like *more* than just caring about them as a character.
Lots and lots of ideas and little shape.
It drives me nuts. In myself, I mean.
My fic, what there was of it, was character essay in disguise as narrative.I like that, though. Which reminds me, I owe you more than cookies. The thing is, sometimes I *do* get plot ideas, and can do
( ... )
I forget what else that would be. Was there some sort of prompt/idea we discussed? Not that I'm upset. I remember and I care, but I don't really mind.
there are some you *care* about as people, even when they are people you would not like, which seems like *more* than just caring about them as a character
There's probably some sort of a personal factor in play. Perhaps those characters share traits with yourself or someone you know, and the character serves as a vessel for related issues...
I owe you fb! I never did any of my holiday fb'ing, and I've always wanted to read fic by you, just never gotten around to it!
There's probably some sort of a personal factor in play. Perhaps those characters share traits with yourself or someone you know, and the character serves as a vessel for related issues...
Well, I think you're right. I suppose I've been worrying about it more lately as I find myself more and more drawn to characters I think are weak and spineless selfish brats, and I never was interested in characters like that before. Guess I'm afraid it says something about myself!
I've never gotten the big deal about AUs in some fandoms. HP fandom in particular seems afeared of 'em. I'd agree there's a difference between creating an AU and getting Jossed, but other than that... especially since so many shows have canonical AUs like the Wishverse in Buffy and the Mirror Universe in Star Trek
( ... )
My fic, what there was of it, was character essay in disguise as narrative.
True. I just think people tend to toss words like "dark" and "fluffy" around at what they do or don't like. There's no way to change that, I guess.
But a story which is all wish fulfillment is like spraying whipped cream into your mouth. It's fine as a treat, but as a steady diet it's not all that healthy or fulfilling.
That's a great way of putting it.
I don't think that writing about two people who have a working long-term relationship translates to fluff, either.
I agree. I just think keeping characters apart and/or breaking up relationships is many of today's storytellers' shorthand for denying the audience something. I guess because society has spent so long trying to convince us that sex and/or marriage = fulfillment, which as you say, isn't true at all.
That first one is not me! (stares fearfully at alien words)
It's been my observation that fluff is liked as much or even more than darkfic. It's just not respected as much. Good fluff is actually harder to write than darkfic in many respects - but mediocre darkfic is likely to get more respect than good fluff. Even though the fluff attracts more squee and favorable feedback. I was pondering this while I finished up my last WIP: there were two possible ways I could have ended the story, one of which involved character death and one of which didn't. And I find myself wondering if it would have been a better story with the death, or simply slightly more depressing. We're taught that unhappiness is deeper and more significant than happiness, and that a happy ending is by definition shallow. Somehow I don't think that can always be right.
there were two possible ways I could have ended the story, one of which involved character death and one of which didn't. And I find myself wondering if it would have been a better story with the death, or simply slightly more depressing.
This is kind of what I mean about wish fulfillment, I think. If you had killed the character off, wouldn't the readers be left wishing the character had lived? I mean, even if they don't *want* you to change it because they feel killing the character off made a "better" story, there's the part that wishes it would've ended happy. So is denying them that what makes them feel the story is better?
We're taught that unhappiness is deeper and more significant than happiness, and that a happy ending is by definition shallow. Somehow I don't think that can always be right.I agree completely. I hate the practice in literature these days that something is "good" if it's all ugliness and despair. But I can see where it comes from, because we linger on sad endings. Again, *wishing* for the happy.
( ... )
I call up a new doc so it feels like I'm starting something completely new, and start fresh on that doc, and then only later C&P what I've written into the story I've already started. Am I the only one who does this?
No!
In fact, at one point, the Crack Addled Drawer Fic of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM existed in three documents.
When I got to a point when I was happy with the Pivotal Alley Sex of Dubious Consent and Angst-o-Rama (read: when the PASoDCaAoR satisfied my lame-ass kinks), I pasted it into the main doc. And then at some point, when I remembered that the whole start of the DADFoD(OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM) was in a separate file of Abandoned Fic, I c&p'd it, too.
Then there's Sunrise, which exists at the moment in multiple documents and a tracking spreadsheet.
I think, however, that that's all just me Avoiding Actual Work on the thing.
Crack Addled Drawer Fic of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
Which fic is this?
What is a tracking spreadsheet?
I have an epic of doo(OOOOOOOOOO)m where I have the main doc and then another doc I call "the work sheet", with bits and pieces. The bits and pieces are each separated and labeled and linked with that nifty thing on Word, where you can jump from one part of a doc to the next, so I can call up a Table of Contents on the margin of the worksheet and jump to any bit or piece I want. That's handy.
Someday I would like to discuss with everyone the idea of keeping track of docs and bits of fics and our ideas and such. I think we'll probably *all* find that it is merely a way of AAW.
So last summer, I started working on this old WIP of mine that had been 3/4ths finished for ages (and, umm, posted, so I had WIP guilt). And, as usual, my brain was like "Min! Embrace the tacky cliche! You'd love it!" and sathinks kept having to keep me on track and off the tacky cliche thing
( ... )
Oh, that makes me sad! The not leaving the drawer part, I mean.
It's amazing how I can keep on coming back to crack I started ages ago, and how it builds. I still have fanfic from the 4th grade I plan on finishing. Srsly.
And anyway I am of the opinion that the more tacky cliches get embraced by good writers, the less tacky and even less cliche they are and the more they become fictional tropes we can turn over and explore. With less shame! Or, I tell myself that, so I feel less embarrassment reading/writing them. Either way.
Comments 44
Except that I've been hoarding my catty and subjective opinions about a lot of porn writing and someday I will hide out with you and confess. I am actually quite annoyed by how picky I am about what sex writing is actually hot to me. SIGH.
Reply
I am actually quite annoyed by how non-picky and yet specific I am about same.
That is, it doesn't have to be good writing to make me hot. But it has to hit a number of kinks, and if it does, even in laundry list form, usually I'm there.
Reply
I've seen the brightness in one little spark.
I've seen what I chose and I've seen what I need,
And that is enough, to want more would be greed.
I've seen what I was and I know what I'll be
I've seen it all - there is no more to see!
Reply
That song always reminds me of Connor after killing Jasmine now because stoney321 put it in her charcter mix.
I love Little Prince.
Reply
Unpopular Fannish Opinion #1: Fandom, I owe you nothing.
What? I was pretty sure fandom owed me cookies.
Liking characters as people vs. liking them as characters.
This is an easy one for me. I mean, gosh do I love the character of Jim Profit. But he'd kill me and sell my loved ones into slavery if it would get G&G stock to go up a quarter-point. I wouldn't like that guy in person. Heck, my last boss I did not like at all, but he'd make for a great character.
Fanfic as the fulfillment which canon lacks.
Nobody likes a tease. But teases bring people back again and again. Until they get sick of you.
I do know that I spent four hours today staring at a list of concepts, but didn't know what plot to give to the concepts, so ended up making this post.
I'm like that, except way less prolific. My fandom conversations tend to go this way. Lots and lots of ideas and little shape. Which is part of why I haven't written fic in so long. All I have are hooks.
When I want to write fic I don't want to tell a story so much as say something ( ... )
Reply
I actually have this list of All The Things I Don't Owe Fandom, and most have parenthetical stipulations to the effect of: "unless I promised you otherwise."
Here is the sad story on the cookies: I made them for you and two other people to whom I promised them a month ago. And they are still sitting in my freezer. WTF, self, WTF.
I mean, gosh do I love the character of Jim Profit. [...] I wouldn't like that guy in person.
Well, I think with some characters, it's pretty easy. Some you love as characters, hate as people, that's it. But then there are some you *care* about as people, even when they are people you would not like, which seems like *more* than just caring about them as a character.
Lots and lots of ideas and little shape.
It drives me nuts. In myself, I mean.
My fic, what there was of it, was character essay in disguise as narrative.I like that, though. Which reminds me, I owe you more than cookies. The thing is, sometimes I *do* get plot ideas, and can do ( ... )
Reply
I forget what else that would be. Was there some sort of prompt/idea we discussed? Not that I'm upset. I remember and I care, but I don't really mind.
there are some you *care* about as people, even when they are people you would not like, which seems like *more* than just caring about them as a character
There's probably some sort of a personal factor in play. Perhaps those characters share traits with yourself or someone you know, and the character serves as a vessel for related issues...
Reply
There's probably some sort of a personal factor in play. Perhaps those characters share traits with yourself or someone you know, and the character serves as a vessel for related issues...
Well, I think you're right. I suppose I've been worrying about it more lately as I find myself more and more drawn to characters I think are weak and spineless selfish brats, and I never was interested in characters like that before. Guess I'm afraid it says something about myself!
Reply
Reply
True. I just think people tend to toss words like "dark" and "fluffy" around at what they do or don't like. There's no way to change that, I guess.
But a story which is all wish fulfillment is like spraying whipped cream into your mouth. It's fine as a treat, but as a steady diet it's not all that healthy or fulfilling.
That's a great way of putting it.
I don't think that writing about two people who have a working long-term relationship translates to fluff, either.
I agree. I just think keeping characters apart and/or breaking up relationships is many of today's storytellers' shorthand for denying the audience something. I guess because society has spent so long trying to convince us that sex and/or marriage = fulfillment, which as you say, isn't true at all.
Reply
It's been my observation that fluff is liked as much or even more than darkfic. It's just not respected as much. Good fluff is actually harder to write than darkfic in many respects - but mediocre darkfic is likely to get more respect than good fluff. Even though the fluff attracts more squee and favorable feedback. I was pondering this while I finished up my last WIP: there were two possible ways I could have ended the story, one of which involved character death and one of which didn't. And I find myself wondering if it would have been a better story with the death, or simply slightly more depressing. We're taught that unhappiness is deeper and more significant than happiness, and that a happy ending is by definition shallow. Somehow I don't think that can always be right.
Reply
This is kind of what I mean about wish fulfillment, I think. If you had killed the character off, wouldn't the readers be left wishing the character had lived? I mean, even if they don't *want* you to change it because they feel killing the character off made a "better" story, there's the part that wishes it would've ended happy. So is denying them that what makes them feel the story is better?
We're taught that unhappiness is deeper and more significant than happiness, and that a happy ending is by definition shallow. Somehow I don't think that can always be right.I agree completely. I hate the practice in literature these days that something is "good" if it's all ugliness and despair. But I can see where it comes from, because we linger on sad endings. Again, *wishing* for the happy. ( ... )
Reply
No!
In fact, at one point, the Crack Addled Drawer Fic of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM existed in three documents.
When I got to a point when I was happy with the Pivotal Alley Sex of Dubious Consent and Angst-o-Rama (read: when the PASoDCaAoR satisfied my lame-ass kinks), I pasted it into the main doc. And then at some point, when I remembered that the whole start of the DADFoD(OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM) was in a separate file of Abandoned Fic, I c&p'd it, too.
Then there's Sunrise, which exists at the moment in multiple documents and a tracking spreadsheet.
I think, however, that that's all just me Avoiding Actual Work on the thing.
Reply
Which fic is this?
What is a tracking spreadsheet?
I have an epic of doo(OOOOOOOOOO)m where I have the main doc and then another doc I call "the work sheet", with bits and pieces. The bits and pieces are each separated and labeled and linked with that nifty thing on Word, where you can jump from one part of a doc to the next, so I can call up a Table of Contents on the margin of the worksheet and jump to any bit or piece I want. That's handy.
Someday I would like to discuss with everyone the idea of keeping track of docs and bits of fics and our ideas and such. I think we'll probably *all* find that it is merely a way of AAW.
Reply
So last summer, I started working on this old WIP of mine that had been 3/4ths finished for ages (and, umm, posted, so I had WIP guilt). And, as usual, my brain was like "Min! Embrace the tacky cliche! You'd love it!" and sathinks kept having to keep me on track and off the tacky cliche thing ( ... )
Reply
It's amazing how I can keep on coming back to crack I started ages ago, and how it builds. I still have fanfic from the 4th grade I plan on finishing. Srsly.
And anyway I am of the opinion that the more tacky cliches get embraced by good writers, the less tacky and even less cliche they are and the more they become fictional tropes we can turn over and explore. With less shame! Or, I tell myself that, so I feel less embarrassment reading/writing them. Either way.
Reply
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