I intend to remain unspoiled and write lots and lots of schmoopy Dean taking care of Sam fic. Lots and lots and lots.
I approve of this. You should sign up for the S/D mini-Bang and write gloriously schmoopy h/c for it.
I am among those seriously squicked by the memory wipe, but I have been busy thinking up Deep Thematic Resonances for it, and eventually I will write them into pretentious meta and feel better about the whole thing.
I totally get being squicked by it. I mean, it is objectively an incredibly squicky thing. I'm just, um. I'm a terrible person. I tolerate things from SPN I know I never would from another show. I'm like, "Are Sam and Dean okay? Fine, good, whatever." But I hope your meta is healing! I require you to join me in schmoopy fic-writing this summer. *g*
I am apparently signing up for mini-bang. I have been given my orders, and I know better than to refuse them. :D
I am apparently signing up for mini-bang. I have been given my orders, and I know better than to refuse them. :D
Exxxcelleeeeent.
/villainous Khan voice
There was a brief period in s5 when I feared that Sam might try to get Dean memory-wiped so he could have his apple pie life, and if that had happened I would have gone ballistic. Bad stuff is so much less bad when it isn't between Sam and Dean, I am totally with you there. I'm fonder of Cas than you are, but I am still perfectly willing to throw him under the bus as source of conflict and betrayal while Sam and Dean get to love each other unitedly. Especially as long as Sam is subconsciously convinced that he's a hooker and Dean's a male model. I'm now pretty sure he survived hell by writing terrible AU porn in his head.
I'm not even talking about the hilarious god stuff at the end
Yeah, that made me LOL. It was so ridiculous and cheesy. Possibly the lamest season finale I've ever seen on any show.
and beat the crap out of Dean when he was thinking of saying yes to Michael.That's a serious sore spot with me. First, it irked me when everyone acted like Dean was making the wrong choice, when I think he was making the right one. IMHO, he didn't have any better options. They had no real plan at that point. The situation was grim. Second, Cas beating the crap out of him because Dean didn't live up to his expectations was disgusting. It's not Dean's fault Cas put him on some weird pedestal. Cas's temper tantrum when Dean "failed" Him pretty much solidified my dislike of the character
( ... )
You know, I liked Cas in early season four, when he was just this weird, otherworldly character. The more they veered from that and explored his humanity, the less I liked.See, I agree, and I don't. I've never cared about his emotional turmoil, and I'm almost glad they didn't go any deeper into it than they did, but I don't even think they did explore his humanity--if they did, I don't think they did a good job of it. They explored him taking a different path from the other angels, but I feel like to have explored his humanity, there would need to have been some recognition that he felt remorse or uncertainty over anything he was doing. Certainly in S5, I didn't see any of that. He's very quick to give Sam crap for starting the apocalypse, but he never takes responsibility for his part in it, just like he never shows any real regret for making Dean torture again, or for beating him up in 518. I was able to like him a little more when he started building a relationship with Sam, but I was always baffled that he got away with so much
( ... )
I don't even think they did explore his humanity--if they did, I don't think they did a good job of it. They explored him taking a different path from the other angels, but I feel like to have explored his humanity, there would need to have been some recognition that he felt remorse or uncertainty over anything he was doing.
I can see the point you're making there, although I still feel they were working toward making Cas more human than angel, and to me that took his character from interesting to boring to downright irritating.
He's very quick to give Sam crap for starting the apocalypse, but he never takes responsibility for his part in it, just like he never shows any real regret for making Dean torture again, or for beating him up in 518.
I was thinking he did show some remorse for treating Dean bad in "Point of No Return." Didn't he apologize? Maybe in the next episode? And he seemed to truly regret that Dean had to torture. At least, I thought I saw some real regret during that ep.
Hmm. I might be misremembering 518, but I remember it going from them getting out, to Sam and Dean in the car. And right before they go in, he explicitly says that he doesn't want to watch Dean fail, and that he doesn't have Sam's faith in him. And I don't think he likes making Dean torture, but I don't think he ever acknowledges that it's a really awful thing for Dean to have to do. I mean, he won't heal him, and he ends by confirming that Dean broke the first seal. This does not seem like the best apology ever. And he certainly never admits to the panic room thing, which I will forever hold against him. FOREVER!
Ahem. I do take your point. They probably did try to make him more human, or at least softer. I just don't think they did enough to ever make me get over all the things he did that were really douchy. I guess, as you say, they just made him boring. Which is at least why I like this change. I don't know what they'll do with him, but I intend to be hopeful that they have surprised me once, so maybe they'll do it again.
I believe Dean's been saying it since the beginning - angels are dicks with wings. Unfortunately for him, he had to find out that Castiel is no exception.
I never disliked him that much, but I never cared much about him one way or the other.
Agree, too, about Ben and Lisa. I liked them, I liked that Dean could be happy with them, and I hated that the show made him believe he was nothing better than a monster and not worthy of them. But wiping their memories is so much better than killing them that I'm fine with all of it.
The SamnDean togetherness is making me so very happy at this point nothing else matters.
The SamnDean togetherness is making me so very happy at this point nothing else matters.
Hee! Yes, exactly. It's all so lovely, and it's them against the world, just how I like it. I will tolerate an awful lot for that. And honestly, I kind of think Dean's whole I am a monster thing is only partly true. He didn't think he was a monster and not good enough for them until Sam showed back up and he could start hunting again, you know? It's hunting that puts them in danger, not who Dean is; if he wants them to be safe, that's what he gives up. When he goes back on the road in 602, he's doing it for no other reason than because he wants to, and when Ben asks him to give it up, he explicitly says he both can't and won't. I'm not saying part of him doesn't believe it. I just think some of it is about justifying his own choices, to himself as much as to them.
I just think some of it is about justifying his own choices, to himself as much as to them.
Hahahaaaaa I've always thought that somewhat. Like it's easier for him to be like NO I'M AN AWFUL PERSON I MUST BE FAR AWAY FROM YOU rather than face up to the fact that though a big part of him loved them and that life, another part of him actually genuinely wants to be out hunting, and with Sam, not with them. (Which, you know, in my opinion, duh! Sam > everything!) But then I feel like a bit of a bad person...
I cannot tell you how happy I am to find out I am bot the only SPN fangirl on the planet who thinks Cas is a whiny passive-aggressive bitch! I could never work up any love for the guy know matter how I tried. He's a dick and he always has been. That completely aside I loved the eps and 95% of the reason was and is because the brothers are finally a unit again. Oh the possibilities!
I love the togetherness. There has been some WTF stuff in this season, but the renewed and maybe even stronger brotherliness totally makes up for all of it.
The last half of the season felt like my reward for enduring all the time they spent so thoroughly sperated. I am releived and completely happy to see them 'together' again.
I knew you would be! And what dickishness you are validated with. There's even a fair bit of emo self-pity thrown in as an added bonus.
You should watch the last one. It is hilarious. Though probably less so, when you know what's coming. But even so. I AM YOUR NEW GOD! I still think of it and laugh.
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I approve of this. You should sign up for the S/D mini-Bang and write gloriously schmoopy h/c for it.
I am among those seriously squicked by the memory wipe, but I have been busy thinking up Deep Thematic Resonances for it, and eventually I will write them into pretentious meta and feel better about the whole thing.
Reply
I am apparently signing up for mini-bang. I have been given my orders, and I know better than to refuse them. :D
Reply
Exxxcelleeeeent.
/villainous Khan voice
There was a brief period in s5 when I feared that Sam might try to get Dean memory-wiped so he could have his apple pie life, and if that had happened I would have gone ballistic. Bad stuff is so much less bad when it isn't between Sam and Dean, I am totally with you there. I'm fonder of Cas than you are, but I am still perfectly willing to throw him under the bus as source of conflict and betrayal while Sam and Dean get to love each other unitedly. Especially as long as Sam is subconsciously convinced that he's a hooker and Dean's a male model. I'm now pretty sure he survived hell by writing terrible AU porn in his head.
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I'm not even talking about the hilarious god stuff at the end
Yeah, that made me LOL. It was so ridiculous and cheesy. Possibly the lamest season finale I've ever seen on any show.
and beat the crap out of Dean when he was thinking of saying yes to Michael.That's a serious sore spot with me. First, it irked me when everyone acted like Dean was making the wrong choice, when I think he was making the right one. IMHO, he didn't have any better options. They had no real plan at that point. The situation was grim. Second, Cas beating the crap out of him because Dean didn't live up to his expectations was disgusting. It's not Dean's fault Cas put him on some weird pedestal. Cas's temper tantrum when Dean "failed" Him pretty much solidified my dislike of the character ( ... )
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I can see the point you're making there, although I still feel they were working toward making Cas more human than angel, and to me that took his character from interesting to boring to downright irritating.
He's very quick to give Sam crap for starting the apocalypse, but he never takes responsibility for his part in it, just like he never shows any real regret for making Dean torture again, or for beating him up in 518.
I was thinking he did show some remorse for treating Dean bad in "Point of No Return." Didn't he apologize? Maybe in the next episode? And he seemed to truly regret that Dean had to torture. At least, I thought I saw some real regret during that ep.
I was sure it was going to end with ( ... )
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Ahem. I do take your point. They probably did try to make him more human, or at least softer. I just don't think they did enough to ever make me get over all the things he did that were really douchy. I guess, as you say, they just made him boring. Which is at least why I like this change. I don't know what they'll do with him, but I intend to be hopeful that they have surprised me once, so maybe they'll do it again.
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I never disliked him that much, but I never cared much about him one way or the other.
Agree, too, about Ben and Lisa. I liked them, I liked that Dean could be happy with them, and I hated that the show made him believe he was nothing better than a monster and not worthy of them. But wiping their memories is so much better than killing them that I'm fine with all of it.
The SamnDean togetherness is making me so very happy at this point nothing else matters.
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Hee! Yes, exactly. It's all so lovely, and it's them against the world, just how I like it. I will tolerate an awful lot for that. And honestly, I kind of think Dean's whole I am a monster thing is only partly true. He didn't think he was a monster and not good enough for them until Sam showed back up and he could start hunting again, you know? It's hunting that puts them in danger, not who Dean is; if he wants them to be safe, that's what he gives up. When he goes back on the road in 602, he's doing it for no other reason than because he wants to, and when Ben asks him to give it up, he explicitly says he both can't and won't. I'm not saying part of him doesn't believe it. I just think some of it is about justifying his own choices, to himself as much as to them.
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Hahahaaaaa I've always thought that somewhat. Like it's easier for him to be like NO I'M AN AWFUL PERSON I MUST BE FAR AWAY FROM YOU rather than face up to the fact that though a big part of him loved them and that life, another part of him actually genuinely wants to be out hunting, and with Sam, not with them. (Which, you know, in my opinion, duh! Sam > everything!) But then I feel like a bit of a bad person...
/butting in
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That completely aside I loved the eps and 95% of the reason was and is because the brothers are finally a unit again. Oh the possibilities!
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Hee! Truer words have never been written.
I love the togetherness. There has been some WTF stuff in this season, but the renewed and maybe even stronger brotherliness totally makes up for all of it.
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I probably won't ever watch the episodes, but I was definitely pleased to finally be explicitly vindicated on this count.
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I knew you would be! And what dickishness you are validated with. There's even a fair bit of emo self-pity thrown in as an added bonus.
You should watch the last one. It is hilarious. Though probably less so, when you know what's coming. But even so. I AM YOUR NEW GOD! I still think of it and laugh.
Also, Sam is awesome.
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