I'm not even talking about the hilarious god stuff at the end
Yeah, that made me LOL. It was so ridiculous and cheesy. Possibly the lamest season finale I've ever seen on any show.
and beat the crap out of Dean when he was thinking of saying yes to Michael.That's a serious sore spot with me. First, it irked me when everyone acted like Dean was making the wrong choice, when I think he was making the right one. IMHO, he didn't have any better options. They had no real plan at that point. The situation was grim. Second, Cas beating the crap out of him because Dean didn't live up to his expectations was disgusting. It's not Dean's fault Cas put him on some weird pedestal. Cas's temper tantrum when Dean "failed" Him pretty much solidified my dislike of the character
( ... )
You know, I liked Cas in early season four, when he was just this weird, otherworldly character. The more they veered from that and explored his humanity, the less I liked.See, I agree, and I don't. I've never cared about his emotional turmoil, and I'm almost glad they didn't go any deeper into it than they did, but I don't even think they did explore his humanity--if they did, I don't think they did a good job of it. They explored him taking a different path from the other angels, but I feel like to have explored his humanity, there would need to have been some recognition that he felt remorse or uncertainty over anything he was doing. Certainly in S5, I didn't see any of that. He's very quick to give Sam crap for starting the apocalypse, but he never takes responsibility for his part in it, just like he never shows any real regret for making Dean torture again, or for beating him up in 518. I was able to like him a little more when he started building a relationship with Sam, but I was always baffled that he got away with so much
( ... )
I don't even think they did explore his humanity--if they did, I don't think they did a good job of it. They explored him taking a different path from the other angels, but I feel like to have explored his humanity, there would need to have been some recognition that he felt remorse or uncertainty over anything he was doing.
I can see the point you're making there, although I still feel they were working toward making Cas more human than angel, and to me that took his character from interesting to boring to downright irritating.
He's very quick to give Sam crap for starting the apocalypse, but he never takes responsibility for his part in it, just like he never shows any real regret for making Dean torture again, or for beating him up in 518.
I was thinking he did show some remorse for treating Dean bad in "Point of No Return." Didn't he apologize? Maybe in the next episode? And he seemed to truly regret that Dean had to torture. At least, I thought I saw some real regret during that ep.
Hmm. I might be misremembering 518, but I remember it going from them getting out, to Sam and Dean in the car. And right before they go in, he explicitly says that he doesn't want to watch Dean fail, and that he doesn't have Sam's faith in him. And I don't think he likes making Dean torture, but I don't think he ever acknowledges that it's a really awful thing for Dean to have to do. I mean, he won't heal him, and he ends by confirming that Dean broke the first seal. This does not seem like the best apology ever. And he certainly never admits to the panic room thing, which I will forever hold against him. FOREVER!
Ahem. I do take your point. They probably did try to make him more human, or at least softer. I just don't think they did enough to ever make me get over all the things he did that were really douchy. I guess, as you say, they just made him boring. Which is at least why I like this change. I don't know what they'll do with him, but I intend to be hopeful that they have surprised me once, so maybe they'll do it again.
I'm still thinking Castiel apologized to Dean in 5x19 (or a later one), when Castiel was in the hospital. I swear I remember them having a phone conversation ...
OK, I checked Super Wiki, and in 5.21, there was this:
CASTIEL Dean, wait.
BOBBY I will?
CASTIEL You said "no" to Michael. I owe you an apology.
DEAN Cass...I-it's okay.
CASTIEL You are not the burnt and broken shell of a man that I believed you to be.
DEAN Thank you. I appreciate that.
CASTIEL You're welcome.
That's what I was remembering as far as an apology goes. I guess it wasn't actually for beating Dean up, but rather for not having faith in Dean in 5.18. So yeah, he didn't actually apologize for beating Dean up. (Oh, and that's another pet peeve of mine is that some people acted/act like Cas simply punched Dean a couple times, when he brutally beat him).
I don't know what they'll do with him, but I intend to be hopeful that they have surprised me once, so maybe they'll do it again.
Oh, I'd forgotten about that conversation. It's something, but I don't think it changes my opinion much. apologising only for not having faith is almost a validation of what he did. He's not sorry he hurt Dean; he's just sorry he was wrong about thinking it was necessary.
And yes, it was brutal, especially given that it's angel against human. I mean, this wasn't a fight between equals; it was the equivalent of Dean beating up a woman, or maybe even a kid.
apologising only for not having faith is almost a validation of what he did. He's not sorry he hurt Dean; he's just sorry he was wrong about thinking it was necessary.
An interesting distinction ...
And yes, it was brutal, especially given that it's angel against human. I mean, this wasn't a fight between equals; it was the equivalent of Dean beating up a woman, or maybe even a kid.
I'm not even talking about the hilarious god stuff at the end
Yeah, that made me LOL. It was so ridiculous and cheesy. Possibly the lamest season finale I've ever seen on any show.
and beat the crap out of Dean when he was thinking of saying yes to Michael.That's a serious sore spot with me. First, it irked me when everyone acted like Dean was making the wrong choice, when I think he was making the right one. IMHO, he didn't have any better options. They had no real plan at that point. The situation was grim. Second, Cas beating the crap out of him because Dean didn't live up to his expectations was disgusting. It's not Dean's fault Cas put him on some weird pedestal. Cas's temper tantrum when Dean "failed" Him pretty much solidified my dislike of the character ( ... )
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I can see the point you're making there, although I still feel they were working toward making Cas more human than angel, and to me that took his character from interesting to boring to downright irritating.
He's very quick to give Sam crap for starting the apocalypse, but he never takes responsibility for his part in it, just like he never shows any real regret for making Dean torture again, or for beating him up in 518.
I was thinking he did show some remorse for treating Dean bad in "Point of No Return." Didn't he apologize? Maybe in the next episode? And he seemed to truly regret that Dean had to torture. At least, I thought I saw some real regret during that ep.
I was sure it was going to end with ( ... )
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Ahem. I do take your point. They probably did try to make him more human, or at least softer. I just don't think they did enough to ever make me get over all the things he did that were really douchy. I guess, as you say, they just made him boring. Which is at least why I like this change. I don't know what they'll do with him, but I intend to be hopeful that they have surprised me once, so maybe they'll do it again.
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OK, I checked Super Wiki, and in 5.21, there was this:
CASTIEL Dean, wait.
BOBBY I will?
CASTIEL You said "no" to Michael. I owe you an apology.
DEAN Cass...I-it's okay.
CASTIEL You are not the burnt and broken shell of a man that I believed you to be.
DEAN Thank you. I appreciate that.
CASTIEL You're welcome.
That's what I was remembering as far as an apology goes. I guess it wasn't actually for beating Dean up, but rather for not having faith in Dean in 5.18. So yeah, he didn't actually apologize for beating Dean up. (Oh, and that's another pet peeve of mine is that some people acted/act like Cas simply punched Dean a couple times, when he brutally beat him).
I don't know what they'll do with him, but I intend to be hopeful that they have surprised me once, so maybe they'll do it again.
We shall see in just a few months. :)
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And yes, it was brutal, especially given that it's angel against human. I mean, this wasn't a fight between equals; it was the equivalent of Dean beating up a woman, or maybe even a kid.
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An interesting distinction ...
And yes, it was brutal, especially given that it's angel against human. I mean, this wasn't a fight between equals; it was the equivalent of Dean beating up a woman, or maybe even a kid.
*nods*
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