So I'm really a gay boy? And I still need to see "I'm Not There."

Dec 15, 2007 07:08

It seems that criticism on Todd Haynes has rather exploded since the last time I looked (while writing my thesis, in 2004). At the time, I was able to find less than a handful of academic articles to reference, and had to resort to quoting interviews and movie reviews. Now not only are there multiple articles on all his works, but even an entire ( Read more... )

queerness, children's stories, marc bolan, todd haynes, david bowie, mika, oscar wilde, introspection

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Comments 13

electricwitch December 15 2007, 14:50:44 UTC
I think it can be applied to intelligent and imaginitive children, little girls who don´t fit in just as much as to little boys who don´t fit in. Doesn´t Todd Haynes use a lot of girls in Velvet Goldmine? Like the girls who act out the Brian Slade/Curt Wilde romance with Barbie dolls?

But women, especially young ones, are not a REAL topic to most people unless they die or are sluts and so they´re just overlooked. I remember Todd Haynes talking about how Velvet Goldmine had become a hit with young girls and women mainly, and he said it wasn´t strange as they were the audience for Bowie, Bolan, etc as well, only they do not exist for marketing officials and so the film was marketed towards young men despite that.

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katranna December 15 2007, 15:45:33 UTC
Yeah, it seems like it would apply to imaginative children in general. It's just when a young boy is imaginative and artistic = queer.

I should say that Davies never says "all these things make up a queer boychild." But in talking about queer childhood and queer subjectivity, these are things he brings up.

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acrylic_after December 15 2007, 18:14:10 UTC
Um, yep, that was me too. I mean, I dunno anything about anything, but I think it's just sort of typical of introverted kids who are fairly bright and creative but maybe feel a little out of step with the world for whatever reason, it doesn't have to be sexuality related. But then I'm not straight either, so who knows.

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katranna December 15 2007, 18:29:02 UTC
I know! But then again, every BOY I know who'd fit all those things is indeed queer.

...or maybe I just don't know enough straight boys.

So were you into suffering-orphan stories too, and striving after artifice/composing your life as though recreating a pastiche of your favorite fictions? That would be really cool if so.

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acrylic_after December 15 2007, 19:48:46 UTC
Well, I've always liked books, and I think suffering orphans are kind of a pretty big architype in children's literature, but I did have a Dickens phase in about grade three, and that's hardly normal, so I think it's fair to say I did. My parents still teasingly call me CinderJossie because of my poor-little-orphan tendancies, though I was also big into being some sort of rescuer. And I used to get in trouble for involving my little friends in my elaborate fantasy life and convincing them that all kinds of scary things were actually happening, when of course they weren't.

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katranna December 16 2007, 03:16:01 UTC
Ha. I was strangely into the degradation part more than the rescuing, as long as I knew that the rescue would come. I had a doll to whom I assigned the orphan character, and I would play out her story over and over, but usually focusing on the lost-suffering-orphan part, and dropping off before the big Cinderella finish.

I later also had a strange fascination with abused-little-boy fiction, where the abuse tended to include queer overtones. That was when I liked Orson Scott Card.

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Dos centavos keikokat December 15 2007, 21:57:02 UTC
I can relate to at least on portion of what you're saying - the pretending that you're an alien. I think in my case, it was more like wishful thinking. I really wanted it to be true, because it would have explained so much. My theory was that I was an alien disguised in a human's body, sent down to Earth by the alien government to learn about humans from an insider's perspective. And, of course, they never let me know I wasn't really human, because they wanted me to get the full experience. It made sense to me as an explanation for why I just couldn't understand/relate to other people no matter how hard I tried, and was certainly more comforting than concluding that I'm just dysfunctional and will have to live out my life that way. Also, it gave me hope that someday, when I completed my mission, they'd come rescue me and take me back to where I belong. I supposed there's still time yet ( ... )

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Re: Dos centavos katranna December 16 2007, 03:12:01 UTC
My theory was that I was an alien disguised in a human's body, sent down to Earth by the alien government to learn about humans from an insider's perspective.

Yup, that was what my idea was too! Except that in my case I was part of the government, and I knew I was an alien and I had a guide from the alien Council to help me. :-) Except I don't think I actually had any of the issues you had then--I was just dreamy and imaginative, but I was happy enough in my social circles. I just wanted something more.

How old were you then? I know I took my idea of creating another imaginary lad from a story I read, but not the idea of it being an alien planet or the rest of it.

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Remastered version many_others_yet December 15 2007, 23:39:48 UTC
I take it that Davies is talking about queer childhoods in Haynes’ films, and Haynes’ particular way of representing them, rather than experiences in general. (At least I hope ( ... )

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Re: Remastered version katranna December 16 2007, 03:08:19 UTC
Awww, you have to go and be clever and careful and upset my generalizations. (Which I knew were faulty to begin with but it was more fun to think of them that way.)

I take it that Davies is talking about queer childhoods in Haynes’ films, and Haynes’ particular way of representing them, rather than experiences in general. (At least I hope.)

Yes, quite, although he does describe most of the experiences I alluded to as specifically (but perhaps not exclusively?) queer.

What is a queer childhood, anyway? Surely it can’t be queer in any meaningful sexual sense. One may have an alienated/lonely childhood, spent being apart from the crowd, which predisposes one to imaginative flights, etc., but that would only be queer in the ‘odd/unusual’ sense.

Ah, but we creative queers have rather embraced the idea of being odd/unusual, and are rather eager to attribute it to sexual difference rather than any boring minute character variation.

One conceivably might have a sudden urge to kiss another boy just as one might want to play in mummy’s ( ... )

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GAY DOROTHY ICON LUV many_others_yet December 16 2007, 21:55:19 UTC
>>Yes, quite, although he does describe most of the experiences I alluded to as specifically (but perhaps not exclusively?) queer ( ... )

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Re: GAY DOROTHY ICON LUV katranna December 17 2007, 00:37:58 UTC

Perhaps if the idea was developed creatively in some depth, but personally I can’t imagine anything more banal than lonely = gay.

Oh, of course. Though it's not just lonely=gay, but lonely+artistic+unique=gay. You know. "We may be gay, BUT that makes us creative!"

Anyway, surely the odd/unusual = gay only works well if it does not fit into the already prevailing stereotype that odd/unusual = gay.

Hmm?

there is something annoyingly endearing in the idea of my having pink toys

Awwww. Yes.

nyway, the point is that a child’s categorisation of homosexual or queer is likely to be far more incomplete and flexible than an adult’s because these things are rarely discussed openly with children. Where these boundaries are ill-defined, queerness (or perceived-adult ‘queerness’, which is clearly not kid-queerness) abounds.

Indeed. This is why there have been statements made to the effect that all children are queer, since their sexuality does not conform to what is "expected" in proper heteronormative individuals anyway.

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shveta_thakrar December 16 2007, 03:24:22 UTC
*smiles*

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