Secret's Out

[kanican]

EDIT: (11/09/09 Update Notes) MV is patched on certain NMs.  The fact that you have to wait "X" amount of time after a helix lands for MV to be used actually does not affect this strategy.  However, NM resistance probably will and AV is almost certainly on the list of resistance mobs.

>>「Absolute Virtue」  新SS <<

Overview

For the better part of 4-5

Comments

[elaboration]

You know what's strangest to me is how this wasn't more well-known. I had always argued the potential of Modus Veritas with multiple merited scholars, but I had always been brushed aside. (Admittedly math is not my strong point so not having the numbers to back it up did not help). So it's a tad surprising to see how shocked the community is reacting to this news. I had honestly begun to believe some testing had been done to show that there was a cap to the amount of Scholars can cast Modus Veritas simultaneously on a mob or something to that effect. (I feel slightly vindicated now though

[kanican]

We had already gotten well into testing when I made that comment about it not working. It was more hoping others wouldn't attempt to pursue that discussion.

We were really trying to keep this idea under wraps. Really, I personally felt the ONLY way SE would ever respond to it would be a direct BG post; unfortunately, that's what happened.

[elaboration]

I suppose you got to attempt to play the fool with the crazy ass ideas to discourage others that might blow your secret? Sounded kind of risky. Given the respect you've earned in the FFXI community, more people should've picked up on it as I don't see you throw out outlandish theories on a daily basis. You must've gotten lucky that so many people were more concerned about understanding how to lock AV's 2hrs than entertaining other ideas.

It's a shame someone who has been potentially permabanned (As I understand it, he's still under the 72 hour wait or something?) decides to ruin it for everyone. Don't quite see the point of blowing something like this. It's not a "Screw you, SE!" move, it just fucked up all your progress. I'd be surprised if we don't see some emergency maintenance within the next week.

[elaboration]

Sorry, had to delete my other comment. LJ's servers freaked out and told me I didn't post...only to find out I did. :\

[rsblackrose]

Oh son of a bitch. I would have been glad to come over and help with this operation if transfers to Odin were available. However, I'm glad other servers/groups had the opportunity to try this out before the inevitable swing of the nerf bat.

This is one of those things I have been waiting to do on Carbuncle, but the issue of finding x number of Scholars with MV merits was not looking well. Still, good reading as always.

old news?

[ext_93456]

I could have sworn people talked about massive stacking of Modus Veritas waaaaaaay back in the Scholar information thread on BG? I'm surprised people think of it as shocking news or something despite the Salvage Ban style secrecy surrounding it.

As for a comparison between the two, the Salvage Ban was for a exploiting a straight-up glitch and duping gear. That's considered cheating and that gets you banned from MMOs if you're caught. The MV trick is more along the lines of Yonin and Ninja Tool Expertise. It's not intended, but I don't think SE would ban people for it.

As for why only 8-9 MV work...I'd be curious to see if there's some sort of 8 of an action limit or something similar to the limit on the number of rounds a player can attack per turn (8). Perhaps the 9th only goes off sometimes if it falls on the outside and is considered part of the next round? It would be easy to test with Guage or Provoke or something on a Level 0 mob.

Re: old news?

[rsblackrose]

It's been tossed around on BG a few times, but I think it was played down way too much as being impossible to coordinate.

That's if my memory is correct. It's been sort of spotty lately.

Also, you have to remember that MV cuts duration, merited or not. The merits is what allows extra damage to be generated by the stack, but you can still only push so many MVs until you have no duration left for a tick to trigger. 9-10 seems to be a safety range, so that the tick can trigger and thus generate the mother of all damage.

-TBR

Re: old news?

[kanican]

Simply put, most people don't understand Scholar. Short of someone handing them all the information and providing a video, most people wouldn't have taken this seriously.

Even people that knew the math behind it (that this was viable) still did not know whether or not there were artificial caps (e.g. a 6 MV cap) in the game. These are things only actually trying the strategy could verify. Until someone actually tried it and showed that it did or did not work, it was just a theory or hearsay.

There's just a difference between theory and practice I guess. Most people don't care about the theory, they want to see it in practice. And until today, it was just a theory to most people, and hence SE merrily ignored it.

Re: old news?

[richie73]

Salvage duping was anything but straight-up. Sending a valuable item to someone else and exploiting glitched network code to keep the item, thereby doubling it, that's straight-up duping.

Salvage duping didn't make things drop, it only improved the effective drop rate, from totally unreasonable in the case of SSR to a little more reasonable. It still required skill and time to pull off. It was no different than using mules to fight three times as many Odins as you're supposed to.

[anonymous]

I am well aware of the irony of being banned for a game-breaking glitch only to come back to test another game-breaking oversight on SE's part - all I'll say about this is that once you're banned once, the fear of losing everything is gone as you have nothing left.

What is worth losing? You got banned on Kaeko and got a new account. All you'd lose is Nermal's shit that HE earned, not you.

Won't you just quit already?

[kanican]

Probably a troll post but I'll answer honestly anyways.

He's my brother, he gave the account to me. He's quit for years. There's really nothing to 'lose' for him unless he wanted to RMT the account, which wasn't being planned on. Ultimately, it comes down to what will give you the most joy or most out of the account. For me, testing stuff like this is worth the chance of a ban (small chance still imo). I'm sure you disagree on moral grounds probably, but logically does this not make sense?

I think someone who obviously dislikes me or what I stand for such as yourself would be glad to hear that I rarely play now anyways. This is really an old story that just happens to be reaching the public today. It's not as if we are all intimately involved in this right now this moment. It's all old stuff.

Cheers

[anonymous]

I'm not a troll, I've known you a very longtime. Back when tK was actually a JP shell, before Ashira made her jump, before Auronku lost the sash, before Senrez even applied to tK... a long time.

I'm just tired of your "I'm gonna solve this game. I broke the game with this wall! Oh shit, I'm banned from the game, I'm gonna quit. Oh yeah, I'm gonna play another character but not tell you who. Hey everybody, I'm Nermel now! I'm off to solve this game!"

Go get a real life and stop trying to be the cool guy of the geeks.

[kanican]

If you've known me for a long time, then you must also know that I haven't been on in quite awhile. I guess that would just depend how well you actually know me. Either way I respect your right to remain anonymous so it doesn't really matter

[anonymous]

Could you explain why you and the other people on BG are even slightly upset that this was "outed

[kanican]

"As I write this I am incredibly disappointed as this strategy was essentially outed on BG by a group that failed to even kill anything of significance with this method (basically AV); however, I suppose this is the nature of things when you deal with potentially game-breaking oversights in mechanics