Musings on sex scenes ....

[justacat]

I can't believe how long it's been since I've posted. I'm never prolific, but I've rarely gone this long without posting since I started on  LJ ... and it feels like longer, because it's been such a busy few weeks.  The reason, I think, is a combination of extensive travel over the past few weeks (Escapade, which I haven't written about but maybe

Comments

[executrix]

Oh, so good to see you back!

I must admit, though, that I'm not willing to do enough work to be at all analytical about anything I write--I just kind of put things down and chip at them and move them around until they sound right. Which is one reason why I'm not going to WriterCon, even though so many awesome people will be there.

[justacat]

I just kind of put things down and chip at them and move them around until they sound right.

See, I figured that must be what most writers do! It is a black box, really ... and my utter fascination with the rules is, I think, one of the reasons I don't think I could ever write fic, or write it well: I'd be counting my Actions and my Contexts!! *g*

And thanks! :-)

No Enemies on the Left

[executrix]

This reminds me of the perpetual "is slash homophobic?" debate, which kind of has two wings as well as a broad center--i.e., a right wing of "we're not writing about gay men, so we can say 'we hate fags' as much as we want" and a left wing of "yes, you are colonizing the gay male experience" (and a center of "shuddup, we like reading about hot guys."

So while I can imagine someone saying "I refuse to use a formula to constrain my creativity," speaking just for myself what I'm saying is "I'm sure there are useful craft solutions to problems, I just can't be arsed."

[shayheyred]

I'm saving this post to memories. You rock, dudette!

[justacat]

Wow! It didn't seem that interesting to me ... then again, like I said - Pros and sex, how can you go wrong?! *g*

Feels like forever since we've "spoken"; hope all's well...

[killabeez]

Just-- I love you, that's all. This post made me happier than a happy thing. And thank you for sharing that post from cupidsbow. Interesting analysis of something that I think many people do instinctively. It's kind of similar to something cimmeriansused to call "kinesthetic writing."

But also, I really would be interested to know how the writers among you feel about this way of looking at and analyzing writing. I mean, it's fun for me from an analytical perspective, but does thinking about rules "get in the way" of free expression?

Well, I think more awareness is always good. I don't know about actually using a formula while writing, but it could be a very good way of putting your finger on why a passage isn't working, and it might help you figure out how to get past a tough spot. I don't know that I'd really call these "rules," though, except perhaps for one, specific type of fannish erotic writing. (One which I happen to use myself, but it's not universal.) I'd look at her idea as more of "a formula," than "the formula," if you know what I mean.

[justacat]

I wrote that Question for Writers right before I posted, and as I thought about it after posting I was thinking what you wrote that probably for most good writers, doing this kind of thing is instinctive; they don't think about the rules

[cathexys]

good to see you around! and what a wonderful post! i agree that good sex scenes are totally intrical and to me kind of manage to convey all the stuff that in weaker writing is a lot of verbalization.

i mean, in a way, sex scenes are the show don't tell of the emotional porn for which many of us read (the special connectedness etc.)

[justacat]

in a way, sex scenes are the show don't tell of the emotional porn

Yes yes yes, that's it, exactly! So there is just *nothing* to compare to a really, really good sex scene in a slash story - it's the pinnacle (for me, at least - I know people differ).

I have partly drafted a post about Why I Love Smut (I often feel I have to defend this, for some reason! But I also just like to analyze my own strange preferences and feelings...). One of the reasons is what you say: that in a (well-written) sex scene, an author can convey so very much without a lot of verbalization: in an intimate relationship, the way the partners act and react in bed can *reveal* so much about them and their relationship. Not all writers have the ability (or inclination) to do this, of course - but I sometimes wonder why more of them don't capitalize on the ways in which they can use sex to make their stories more effective.

And good to hear from you, too!!

[cathexys]

*g* i just got 6 tapes with vids from a friend and was watching a bunch of Pro ones yesterday and thinking of you :D

mmmchelle had a marvelous post on PWPs last year...let me look for it...ah, found it: http://mmmchelle.livejournal.com/81737.html

Anyway, yes, i really think that there's an enormous weight that sex and physical intimacy carries in fanfic (i had a post on that a little while ago that i'm pretty sure you commented on...hey, i was using pro fic as examples :-): http://cathexys.livejournal.com/183258.html)

what i'm trying to think about a bit more lately is the concept of emotional porn...that voyeurism that revels in the openness, nakesness, vulnerability of our guys...and that, just likein H/C, can be physicalor mental.

In fact, Chelkle (to me at the moment, the queen of the PWP :-) has this little story naked where it's all about openness and exposing oneself and it has that beautiful line: Holding

[justacat]

Thank you for those links! I'm collecting links to posts that talk about "smut" - all part of the research for my eventual essay on the subject. mmmchelle's had some great points; so did yours, about bonds, and the collapse of the physical and emotional (and I didn't comment on it, but I have no idea why, since it's the kind of thing I love - I must have missed it, or else I'd have put it in my memories).

I often hear fans dismiss smut disdainfully - as in, I don't need sex in my fanfic, I'm beyond that, I'm *deeper* than that, all sex scenes are the same, it's so much more than sex, liking sex scenes is so superficial (of course, some people just don't care for it or care about it, which is fine - that's not what I'm talking about, though). That's sort of what mmmchelle refers to in her post. Someone said to me, back in my early days of fandom, oh, after a while you won't care about the sex anymore, and I rebelled (inside, at least), because I *knew* - I *know* - that there isn't any way for me to separate sex from slash: slash

[nakeisha]

Good to see you back. And as always you raise some very interesting points. I shall pick out only two.

But also, I really would be interested to know how the writers among you feel about this way of looking at and analyzing writing. I mean, it's fun for me from an analytical perspective, but does thinking about rules "get in the way" of free expression?Er, well if I was planning on writing an academic paper or a high-brow literary book, then fine. If I was still studying English Literature, then yes, I'd think this kind of thing was enjoyable and worthwhile and good. However, I'm writing fanfic. I'm writing for enjoyment, for pleasure, my own (and hey, hopefully other people's), if I started to do this with my writing I'd be waving goodbye to the fun

[gilda_elise]

You can have all of this in a slash story and not have any sex at all. This level of intimacy and throat-catching emotions, depth of attachment, transcendent bond can be achieved without going into actual sex - unless you are including kissing and embracing and sharing intimacy in that way (which for me is far, far more intimate than the actual sex part) in sex.

That's very true, and I found that the story passages I most remembered weren't part of the sex scene at all. I suppose it's because I know they love each other; it's the unexpected, out-of-left-field emotional situations that make the biggest impact on me.

[nakeisha]

In many ways I feel that the sex bit is the easy bit, after all at one level it's purely about the physical and that just gets plain boring after a while, as it's nothing that they're not doing with someone else. But when the emotions and intimacy comes into it, it's something quite, quite different. Those are the things that stay with me, not the good old-fashioned Anglo Saxon bits.

[justacat]

it's purely about the physical and that just gets plain boring after a while, as it's nothing that they're not doing with someone else

See, that's where I disagree. To me that's like saying ... well, like "hugging" is just physical and something they could do with anyone. The point to me is that regardless of whether they could, they aren't having sex with "someone else" - they're having sex with each other, and sure, it's physical, but the very particulars of the physicality - how they react to each other, how they respond, what they do and when and why, not to mention the non-physicals (how they're feeling, etc.) - all of that reveals things about them and, more specifically, about their feelings about and relationship with each other. It's definitely true that a physical action may have little meaning in a vacuum - "Bodie stuck tab A in slot B." But it's the particular action, the context, this particular act of sex with this particular person, this tab A in this slot B in this time and place with these reactions, that makes