Musings on sex scenes ....
I can't believe how long it's been since I've posted. I'm never prolific, but I've rarely gone this long without posting since I started on LJ ... and it feels like longer, because it's been such a busy few weeks. The reason, I think, is a combination of extensive travel over the past few weeks (Escapade, which I haven't written about but maybe
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But also, I really would be interested to know how the writers among you feel about this way of looking at and analyzing writing. I mean, it's fun for me from an analytical perspective, but does thinking about rules "get in the way" of free expression?
Er, well if I was planning on writing an academic paper or a high-brow literary book, then fine. If I was still studying English Literature, then yes, I'd think this kind of thing was enjoyable and worthwhile and good. However, I'm writing fanfic. I'm writing for enjoyment, for pleasure, my own (and hey, hopefully other people's), if I started to do this with my writing I'd be waving goodbye to the fun.
I take my hat off to folk who do this, I admire those writers who can indeed sit down and break down and analyse their writing and spend four hours playing with one sentence, simply to get it perfect, or as near perfect as they'll allow it to be. However, that's not my style. Now maybe it'd make me a better (God, this has broken a stream of thought I was having whilst drying my hair this morning) writer, but I certainly wouldn't enjoy it, nor do I suspect would I continue to write. Besides, what is 'better'? One person's better is another's worse.
So to me to try and do something like this would most definitely interfere with my writing and more importantly with my enjoyment and pleasure. Besides once everyone starts to write to a formula, even this kind, all you get, IMHO, is a load of stories whereby the sex scenes (or any scenes) sound exactly the same. After all, there are only so many ways you can write a sex scene.
Jumping back in your post a bit (just to be awkward):
I've thought a little bit about why this might be. I think it has to do with why I read slash: for those intense fannish feelings I was talking about, which for me arise from the relationship between two men. As I wrote recently in one of my interminable Why I Love What I Love posts, for me it's all about the love, the passion between them - what byslantedlight described in one of her comments as "the deepest, most amazing, throat-catching emotions." That's what I'm in it for: to see, to feel, the depth of that attachment, the intimacy, the vulnerability, the ache and the anguish, the transcendent glory of the bond between these two men.
You can have all of this in a slash story and not have any sex at all. This level of intimacy and throat-catching emotions, depth of attachment, transcendent bond can be achieved without going into actual sex - unless you are including kissing and embracing and sharing intimacy in that way (which for me is far, far more intimate than the actual sex part) in sex.
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You can have all of this in a slash story and not have any sex at all. This level of intimacy and throat-catching emotions, depth of attachment, transcendent bond can be achieved without going into actual sex - unless you are including kissing and embracing and sharing intimacy in that way (which for me is far, far more intimate than the actual sex part) in sex.
That's very true, and I found that the story passages I most remembered weren't part of the sex scene at all. I suppose it's because I know they love each other; it's the unexpected, out-of-left-field emotional situations that make the biggest impact on me.
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See, that's where I disagree. To me that's like saying ... well, like "hugging" is just physical and something they could do with anyone. The point to me is that regardless of whether they could, they aren't having sex with "someone else" - they're having sex with each other, and sure, it's physical, but the very particulars of the physicality - how they react to each other, how they respond, what they do and when and why, not to mention the non-physicals (how they're feeling, etc.) - all of that reveals things about them and, more specifically, about their feelings about and relationship with each other. It's definitely true that a physical action may have little meaning in a vacuum - "Bodie stuck tab A in slot B." But it's the particular action, the context, this particular act of sex with this particular person, this tab A in this slot B in this time and place with these reactions, that makes it meaningful.
Sexuality, and sex, are part of any intimate relationship, and the part that generally is hidden from the world: that's the part I want to see, because by seeing that hidden part, I can, potentially, see so much more of the characters and their relationship. Sex is a peculiar kind of exposure; it can be anonymous, sure, but there are certain things that can't be hidden, at least not easily - physical reactions, for example, and those can reveal an awful lot. It's as cathexys and I were discussing up above - there can be something very revealing, and appealing, about the "exposure" of sex: the physical nakedness becomes almost a metaphor for emotional nakedness, so that sexual porn is also a sort of "emotional" porn, which can be incredibly satisfying.
Of course, a fan may not particularly enjoy reading or writing sex scenes or find them interesting or appealing or memorable; that's entirely personal preference and completely fine. But I think that to dismiss the sex scenes as "easy" or "purely about the physical" does a bit of an injustice to those who *do* enjoy it (not to mention the authors who write them well), and overlooks the reasons for doing so that have nothing to do with the purely physical ones (which, while most definitely not irrelevant, are only a small part of it).
As I said to cathexys, my (and most fans', I'd venture to presume) fondness for sex scene isn't the same as a fondness for Random Guy Porn; my desire here isn't to read about two guys having sex. I want to read about sex between these two guys. A sex scene that is nothing but body parts, that gives no sense of the characters and identities and, yes, emotions, of the characters, to me is not a good sex scene (though there may be aspects of it that I enjoy nonetheless). And writing a really good sex scene, one that is full of heat and emotion and makes me feel as if I am seeing into the private hearts of these two characters, seeing "behind the bedroom doors" - and occasionally, if the author is good, seeing aspects of the relationship that the characters themselves haven't even woken up to (e.g., in a story in which they think they're just having sex and haven't yet woken up to the fact that they're actually in love, but the way they act in bed illustrates that clearly to the reader), certainly doesn't seem to be easy, or there would be more of them!
But for me personally, such a scene is one of the ultimate joys of fanfic.
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I am not dismissing the sex scenes as 'easy' or 'purely about the physical'. I did say 'in many ways' and also 'at one level', that is completely different from saying 'it's purely about the physical. And in many ways sex per se is easy - that is what I was saying. And it is. Sex itself, as the purely physical, is really simple. As you yourself say, it's about sticking Tab A into Slot B.
Nor did I ever say that I dislike sex scenes. I enjoy a good sex scene as much as the next person and I can write them if I choose to, and have written some that I feel work well. Nor am I dismissing writers/readers who enjoy them - just as I hope you aren't dismissing anyone who doesn't get the same level of pleasure out of them/find them as important/moving as you do. And I know you're not. Nor was I.
BUT the sex scenes are and have always been low on the list of what makes a story special and memorable for me.
Sex scenes take far more effort and time and energy to write than any other scenes, or so a lot of people say, and I concur with this. And if people enjoy writing and reading them, that is wonderful. Just as if people enjoy writing/reading any kind of thing, be it BDSM, romance, whatever, whatever rocks each person's boat is right for them.
Sexuality, and sex, are part of any intimate relationship
You see now this is a terribly sweeping statement and one that actually isn't true. There are many people involved in intimate relationships who, for one reason or another, do not have/are unable to have sex as such, and their relationship is not any the less because of it.
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There are many people involved in intimate relationships who, for one reason or another, do not have/are unable to have sex as such, and their relationship is not any the less because of it.
Oh, I agree with this entirely - it's all incredibly, incredibly personal and unique; and I didn't mean to imply that lots of animalistic sex is part of any relationship, or that every couple (of whatever sex) expresses themselves sexually in the traditional way.
But nonetheless, that doesn't mean sex isn't "part" of the relationship, even by its absence. I think that it really isn't too sweeping to say that "sexuality" is part of human/animal nature - the range is huge; I don't mean everyone is highly sexual or has sex all the time or even ever, not at all. But sexuality is an aspect of being a (mature) living being, or at least a mammal, and particularly a human. And I think that all aspects of our "humanity" are brought to bear in our intimate relationships. So I *do* think it's true that sexuality is part of *every* intimate relationship in some way or other, even if the people involved aren't "having sex" in the traditional way. Sexuality of some sort is being expressed somehow (even by being *re*pressed).
And it may be that someone wants to write a story in which Bodie and Doyle have an intimate relationship with each other - an exclusive intimate relationship - but do not to actually engage in sex (I've seen that a lot in TS and SH, though not Pros). Or they don't want or like to engage in certain sex acts. Or they don't have very high sex drives. Or one is injured or incapacitated (I just now - 15 minutes ago! - read a story in which Ray was paralyzed). I still think in all those cases that sexuality/sex is part of those relationships, and showing how and why the participants do or don't do whatever they do or don't do can be incredibly revealing.
That's what I meant; sorry for being unclear. Of course, as I've said, *I* prefer reading about B and D expressing their sexuality (and therefore revealing things about themselves and each other) by having sex with each other, but there are many ways an author could deal with this issue (or a reader could want it to be dealt with); that is by no means the only one.
And just to repeat, I really do believe that the *great* thing about fandom is that there is something for everyone - of course I like talking about why I like what I like, and it's always fun to chat with someone who likes the same things, but it truly is fine with me that others don't share my preferences!!
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Thank you. I do know exactly what you mean about having to defend something, I feel the same way about defending my liking for writing/reading 'romance'. It does tend to make one a tad jaded at times. I'm really sorry to hear that you got that kind of treatment from fellow fans. Sorry, but not surprised. I got exactly the same over certain authors. The 'it's okay to like xxx when you first get into fandom, but once you're 'grown up'/have spent time in that fandom, you can't possibly like her any more'. Excuse me? I'll go out of my way to avoid arguments and do tend to be fairly 'accepting' but like you this just made me rebellious. I will not be told who I can/cannot read!
And whilst it's true to say that a lot of people (myself included) do find that the sex scenes that they couldn't get enough of when they first got into fandom, no longer matter as much when they've spent time in fandom, it is simply not the case for everyone. One of my 'oldest' (in terms of she was one of my first) fandom friends, who has been in fandom for longer than you and I (and other people) put together, is just like you. She loves the sex scenes and they are really important to her and she gets the same kind of buzz and enjoyment out of them as you do (I'm afraid she isn't into Pros before you get excited about a fellow minded-person). And she isn't the only person like that. You have nothing to 'defend' and nothing to feel lacking about. But I do know exactly how you feel. Believe me I do.
I do follow what you say about sexuality and sex and it's a good point. I still don't necessarily agree with you, but I'm closer to understanding now what you meant by your comment.
And just to repeat, I really do believe that the *great* thing about fandom is that there is something for everyone - of course I like talking about why I like what I like, and it's always fun to chat with someone who likes the same things, but it truly is fine with me that others don't share my preferences!!
Hear. Hear. I agree one hundred percent with this. And have said so many, many, many times. Unfortunately, it's just a shame that there are those people out there who seem to think that their view/opinion/likes/dislikes is the only one that matters and that it is 'right'. And like you, I always enjoy chatting with someone who doesn't necessarily share exactly the same opinions. It's a lot of fun - along as there's my famous 'mutual respect' on both sides :-)
So you can have your sex scenes and I can have my romance and we're both happy :-)))
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When I thought about it a little more after I posted (I wrote that question for writers right before I posted), it occurred to me that probably very few writers of any sort *consciously* use and apply rules when they sit down to write.
Of course, we all learn various sorts of rules in school, rules of grammar, basic rules for constructing an essay, etc. And in school, I at least had to write to those rules - so, for example, in high school I *had* to write 5-paragraph essays, with an introductory paragraph, three "arguments," and a concluding paragraph, and each paragraph had to have an introductory and concluding sentence, and no passive voice, etc.
This made for very stilted prose! But maybe that's necessary when you're learning; new things never feel natural. Now I never think about rules when I write, but those things I learned are (I hope! *g*) somewhere in there; learning them was part of the process of learning to write.
So I think that, like you, unless they're in school, or otherwise very consciously attempting to learn new and unfamiliar rules, most writers probably *don't* think about rules when they sit down to write - if they did, if they over-thought it, their writing might come out unnatural and awkward. (Though of course the rules you already know, consciously or not, do form the basis of your writing, but you apply those without thinking about them).
But I do think that there can be *for some people*, even in "fun" writing, a place for rules after the initial writing - some writers (see aerye down below, for instance!) enjoy the process of refining, and a conscious application, or at least consideration, of rules can be helpful - or, as killa said, to help a writer figure out why a passage isn't working, or get through a tough spot.
I also think that for a beginning or very inexperienced writer, whose sex scenes (or any kind of scene) are coming out awful and trite, learning rules and formulas can really help - I'd rather see them writing decent sex scenes that sound the same as other decent sex scenes than bad sex scenes, and hopefully, with practice, they'll develop their own style.
But all of this is *only* if it's what the writer *want* to do - as you say, the point of this is pleasure, and I agree with that!
You can have all of this in a slash story and not have any sex at all.
Oh yes, I agree, you most definitely can! That's what I meant when I said that a good author can make me feel those feelings throughout, even with something simple, like drinking a cup of coffee.
But for me, sex is a really important element of that bond. I generally prefer stories that take me all the way behind the bedroom doors - which of course can include kissing and embracing and all sorts of intimacy (though it need not; sex can, as you say, be less intimate than those things - but still reveal a lot about the relationship and the characters). Sex - more or less explicit - is, when it comes down to it, an extremely important element of the appeal of slash to me and always has been.
I know we differ in our views on this - which is fine; happily there's something for everyone in fandom, and I'm not an absolutist, anyway - there are plenty of stories that I adore that aren't explicit in the slightest. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the appeal of "smut" to me, beyond the titillation factor (which isn't irrelevant, but is only one element, and not the most important) - I've always felt the need to "defend" that proclivity, since it seems so base! *g* And also, obviously, I just like analyzing my preferences. :-) One of these days I'll put all my thoughts together into a post ....
Anyway, good to hear from you - hope all's well!
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