Pet peeve

[justacat]

I've run across no fewer than three rec sites recently in which the reccer says she's seen nothing, or very little, of a show, and then proceeds to rec a long list of fanfic for that show. This annoys me to no end - in fact, I might go so far as to say it pisses me off, deeply, and almost offends me. I mean, why bother - and where do you find the

Comments

[lynnmonster]

The funny thing is, I *do* know how you feel -- I've felt the same thing.

But I think as long as they indicate that they like the stories for the writing, not necessarily the author's take on canon or characterization, then it's valid. I wouldn't think it's appropriate for someone unfamiliar with canon to rec on, say, crack_van, because that's geared towards working up interest in fandoms that are *new* to people, but if it's just a general rec site or their own LJ, I don't have a problem with it.

I mean, I *could* rec a few popslash stories, if I ever managed to get a website together, but not only do I not listen to the music, I don't even particularly think the various boys are all that attractive. I do, however, really like a few stories.

Yours in wishy-washyness,
lynnmonster

[justacat]

I sort of did another post rather than really responding (what am I saying "sort of"?!), so I'll leave the real meat alone ... but a few things:
1) why is it a funny thing that you know how I feel? *g* *g*
2) I've been thinking about doing a rec site ... but I'm such an anal virgo completist perfectionist; I barely felt qualified to rec Pros on crack_van *last month* - felt like I hadn't read enough, hadn't seen the eps enough! Maybe one of these days ...
3) wishy-washiness is *good*!!!

Hope all's well - let me know if you're heading down this way anytime soon :)

As usualy, I say, it depends

[sherrold]

In my more accepting days, I just look at comments like that as warnings -- I take it as 'this story is probably well enough written, but the person rec'cing it is making no comments as to how well it adheres to canon, so beware.'

In my more bitchy days, I delete their rec page from my favorites list.

Of course, then I get desperate for more fic and re-save it later, but I'm nothing if not inconsistant...

Re: As usualy, I say, it depends

[justacat]

I'm wildly inconsistent too - as I read these comments my opinions vacillated wildly, between affronted outrage (ban those pseudo-fans from the web! strip them of their email privileges and make them read Sentinel smarm until their eyeballs turn blue!) and outright support (rec pages! they're good for fandom, whoever makes them! equality for the canon-deprived!).

So yesterday must have been one of my more bitchy days :)

[cathexys]

well...i think i disagree. while i'm very strongly against *writing* without knowing the source text, i certainly think it is possible to judge the quality of stories without having seen the source text. not only do the better writers on the whole tend to steer close to canon so that good stories on the whole tend to be in large parts good fanfic, i think you can get a pretty good sense of who's close to canon or not from reading. now, mind you, not good enough to *write* (b/c you should return back to the source text) but i'd argue good enough to read and evaluate fic.

And i'm not sure readers who do not know the source text do *not* love the characters. Then again, I firmly believe that fanfic writers have given enough to most of them that they live outside/beyond the show. So maybe I love them the way they have taken on new life by the best writers in a fandom...that doesn't mean I don't love them!

[justacat]

Your comment about judging writing quality without knowing canon made me think ... which inspired me to do a whole new post rather than attempt to respond, because I got myself tied in knots. The question is whether someone who doesn't know canon can evaluate whether something is good fanfic, as opposed simply to good writing, or good fiction.

Of course, and I didn't put this in my other post, if you view a rec page as simply a list of stories the reccer "likes," as opposed to an attempt to distinguish the best fic in the fandom, then fidelity to/knowledge of/love of canon doesn't matter much, does it ... hmmm...

But I definitely do agree that readers who don't know the source can love the characters, in the abstract or from what they know about them from reading good fanfic.

Ultimately I've confused myself and have no idea what I think about this - though my fleeting feeling of irritation upon coming across a rec site with a big disclaimer - "I've never seen the show" - persists even while I see that it's not necessarily

[cathexys]

lol...we x-commented :-)

i think you've hit upon a very central personal point that we don't much talk about and that causes a lot of flame wars...there's a certain proprietary feeling to fannishness and a hierarchy of authenticity..i feel as superior spike/buffy fan b/c i shipped them before they became canon; you are a 'better' sentinel fan, b/c you actually watched the original series, and so on

connected to that is the slippage between text and author and our investment in the text, which i address a bit in my other comment...anyway...while i got a bit riled up reading al of these it definitely forced me to look at the issues and what *your* (andobviously a lot of other fans' issues) are...very inreresting@!!!

[justacat]

people who haven't watched a show will check out a few pieces of fanfiction then wait till they've seen enough of the actual canon and on-screen interaction to form an opinion of those characters

That seems like a typical pattern ... And it doesn't bother me when someone says, I loved this fic, but I don't know anything about the characters - what bugs me is presuming to recommend to others the "best" fanfic without knowing the source.

Though really, I suppose it's possible to put up a rec site that's simply a list of the stories you like best, and doesn't really purport to be anything more - I think what bugs me is my assumption that non-canon-viewers who put up rec sites have the attitude you described, that canon/source doesn't matter.

I've totally confused myself, is what it boils down to!

(And I was on AIM yesterday, finally!!...but you weren't :( )

[kaiz]

I guess it doesn't bother me much, since many people just don't have access to the original canon. Especially TV shows that may have been off the air for years (thinking of stuff like Man From Uncle or Starsky and Hutch, here) and/or that aren't readily available on DVD or tape.

Also, any kind of rec will be biased according to the reccer's preferences, so...I just factor stuff like "canon familiarity" in before I read someone's recs. Heck, there are people who are total canon-philes whose recs I dislike, so familiarity with canon isn't a show stopper for me! I'm just all about more recs. :-)

[justacat]

Oh, I understand entirely that not everyone has access to source ... and though I might not have been clear about it, I *firmly* believe that fannishness, fannish "legitimacy," has nothing whatsoever to do with familiarity with canon - it's just, if I didn't have access to source, I'd never even dream of putting up an entire rec page for fanfic from that source. It's that that bugs me, even if my irritation isn't entirely rational.

But your point about the bias of reccers is exactly right and well taken. I think the reason I've spent so much time on this is that it surprises me a little that my reaction to non-canon-viewers who put up rec pages is so negative, whereas if it's a canon-viewer who puts up recs with which I disagree, I can simply let it slide. Like I said, not entirely rational, and it clearly has deeper roots because I can't justify it with any sort of logic.

[blktauna]

it's just, if I didn't have access to source, I'd never even dream of putting up an entire rec page for fanfic from that source.

Thank you... if only more people would show such sense and self restraint.