Sam in 4x14

Feb 06, 2009 19:51


Some thoughts about Sam in Sex and Violence

behind the cut for spoilers. )

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Comments 54

vichan February 6 2009, 18:41:29 UTC
I think I'm in the minority on this, but I felt Sam was completely in character. Don't get me wrong, though! I LOVE SAM, I love all of Sam - even his faults. And this? Is a BIG fault.

I mentioned this in my own review of the episode, but here we go:

Since the beginning of the show, I've seen Sam as having a slight superiority complex. He's been a know-it-all from the pilot, and he likes to lord his book-smarts over Dean's street-smarts. That, coupled with what Sam said in 'Metamorphosis,' about how he'd saved more people in the time Dean was gone than he and Dean had saved in a year? Of course he's going to wind up feeling like Dean slows him down.

Dean, on the other hand: also an ass. I feel like Sam should have pointed out that Dean has not trust in Sam, while Dean is constantly asking Sam to 'just trust him.' Considering Dean pulled the 'just trust me' card and turned out to be wrong about the siren, I was a little confused as to why Sam didn't bring that up.

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canyon_deye February 6 2009, 18:48:41 UTC
I'm kind of jumping in here but YES, EXACTLY.

In my opinion Sam was being totally mean to Dean, but it's not like it was out of character. After all he left Dean to go to Stanford and apparently didn't keep in touch with him while he was studying, which I find awfully disturbing considering how much Dean obviously loves Sam etc. Then again I don't want to overstep my knowledge here because we don't know what happened exactly all those years ago... But Dean was slowing him down then, and he's slowing him down now too. I get that. It's mean and it's totally a fault but it's in-character.

Kind of. I think Ruby and her plans have a lot of influence to Sam, after all.

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jude_91 February 6 2009, 18:58:14 UTC
I agree that Sam might see Dean slowing him down but the whole "you whining about your time in Hell annoys me" just doesn't feel like Sam to me. At all.

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jude_91 February 6 2009, 18:55:59 UTC
Since the beginning of the show, I've seen Sam as having a slight superiority complex.

I agree on that. I think Sam wouldn't have felt so OOC to me if the "speech" had been written better. Now the scene left me feeling that all Dean wants is his little brother back and Sam just wants Dean gone, even though what Sam really wants is Lilith dead. That's how I see it anyway.

I also agree that the brothers both have been kinda asshole-y towards each other the whole season.

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geeky_ginger February 6 2009, 18:45:59 UTC
Hmm...I didn't think it was so OOC...I mean neither brother really expresses how they feel and I think Sam is in this situation where he fought so hard to get his brother back, and when the thought he had, he was given a broken shell of what used to be the brother he looked up to. I think that made him angrier, further fueled his need to end Lilith...then came the angels and finding out what Dean did in Hell but realizing that he can't help his brother ( ... )

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ypomoni February 6 2009, 18:52:14 UTC
I too do not believe Sam was outta character. I agree with the above comments, and would like to add to them (I hope this makes sense). Sam had an extra reason to be pissed off with Dean at that specific moment. Dean had just called him and insulted him! "what is it with you and monsters!", when, as we all remember, it was Dean that was trying to get him together with Madison. Then he says something like "I'll do this myself" which sounded more like "once again, I have to clean up this mess...". Sam was furious! (phone smashed against the wall! Woohoo!!) He was already all worked up, he was bound to say some nasty things under the influence of the siren's toxins - note that Dean, having said the previous, very nasty things, was NOT yet under the influence of the siren!

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geeky_ginger February 6 2009, 18:56:25 UTC
Made sense and I agree....I think there too Sam was frustrated with the fact that Dean just went ahead and ASSUMED that Sam was under the Siren's spell...didn't even give him the benefit of the doubt like he usual would. He pretty much treated him like a child and that pissed Sam off ROYALLY.

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jude_91 February 6 2009, 19:04:26 UTC
So really I don't think Sam was OOC....I think we got our first REAL glimpse as the Sam left in the wake of Dean's death...the angry, bitter Sam that is so unlike the Sam from season one.

Like I said above in a comment, I think the "your emo whining about Hell is pissing me off" made me feel Sam was acting OOC, not the "you're slowing me down" part.

And I think that once this ends, once Lilith is gone and the Apocalypse has been thwarted, they can allow themselves to heal and be brothers again.

I really wish that will happen.

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erda_3 February 6 2009, 18:47:19 UTC
Well , I felt kind of the same thing last week, like way to make Dean look like an asshole, and now this week Sam gets the same treatment. I totally agree that the writers could have given Sam much better stuff to be angry at Dean about, and it would have been far more effective. Like why didn't he let Dean know that the reason he lies is because Dean is so suspicious and so ready to believe the worst about him. It's not like Dean has expended a lot of energy trying to understand what Sam has been through.

The best spin I can come up with is that Sam is deliberately trying to push Dean away so that he doesn't get caught in the middle of the confrontation with Lilith. Sam seems emotionally to be at the point where he would be almost glad to throw his own life away to stop her, and perhaps he is trying to get Dean to give up on him so that Dean won't be dragged down, too.

Anyway you look at it, it doesn't bode well for Sam.

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jude_91 February 6 2009, 19:09:29 UTC
I totally agree that the writers could have given Sam much better stuff to be angry at Dean about, and it would have been far more effective.

Yes, I don't see why they chose the "you're slowing me down and you whining about Hell pisses me off" when there would've been other and better things for him to be angry about.

perhaps he is trying to get Dean to give up on him so that Dean won't be dragged down, too.

That thought crossed my mind too. I think that's something Sam would do.

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erinrua February 7 2009, 00:06:32 UTC
*waves and butts in ( ... )

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jude_91 February 7 2009, 12:28:08 UTC
maybe it's just a slip of writing in the past few episodes that's failed to make *clear* how Dean's confessions are tearing Sam apart.That's probably why the scene didn't work for me so well. I agree with just about everything you said, and I do understand the motivation behind Sam's words, but to me it seems weird that the writers didn't make Sam say anything about Dean not trusting him etc. I mean, Dean said he wanted them to be in this together and Sam not to lie to him all the time and then Sam just goes "You're slowing me down". Sam's reasons to be angry at Dean at first seem less justified but when you start thinking about it, there actually is logic behind them and he has a solid reason for saying that stuff. In my opinion Sam was portrayed in a more negative light on that scene than Dean, so I guess that's what bugs me. I do understand that the characters have their flaws and I've got no problem with that, but in my opinion the scene would've been better if both of the brother's flaws had been brought up more clearly. Now the ( ... )

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summers84 February 6 2009, 18:47:59 UTC
Overall, I loved this episode. Secondly, even though he was under a spell, I really didn't like what Sam said about him being the better hunter and all. I feel that if Dean and Sam just sat down and talked, both brothers would realize that they are better as a team. I do NOT like the idea that the show is trying to pit a 'one against the other' deal. Okay, I do find Sam's power of exorcising the demon's with his mind is very hot but the idea that he may turn 'darkside' completely rubs me the wrong way. Hope that in the end, there is a satisfying result.

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jude_91 February 6 2009, 19:12:56 UTC
I really don't want Sam to turn darkside completely either. That wouldn't be a satisfying ending to the show in my opinion. And yes, I agree that Sam said some nasty things to Dean while being under the spell. I just wish the brothers would talk and figure things out.

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pyrokitten77 February 6 2009, 18:50:28 UTC
Together in death is better than alive and apart, in my opinion. I love that, and I agree with it completely.

And I do agree, Sam did sound a bit OOC in that rant. He spent a very long time grieving over Jessica's death, so I don't think he could have gotten that mad at Dean for feeling guilty these past five months. And especially with the reason why he's feeling guilty. Granted, Sam can't possibly know what actually happened to him, but he should be a bit more understanding.

I do wonder if the writers are doing this on purpose. Hm. *ponders*

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jude_91 February 6 2009, 19:19:34 UTC
so I don't think he could have gotten that mad at Dean for feeling guilty these past five months.

That's what bugs me too. And there are other things he could've been angry about at Dean that would've made more sense. But I started thinking that maybe Sam's emotionally at such a bad place at the moment that he isn't thinking rationally anymore, so that would make the rant not-so-OOC anymore. The again things would probably make more sense if we'd seen more of what's been going on in Sam's head during this season.

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pyrokitten77 February 6 2009, 19:28:07 UTC
Yeah, the things Sam decided to pick at didn't really make sense.

Maybe somebody should pimp slap him and see if his brain adjusts to its default settings.

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