Hmm...I didn't think it was so OOC...I mean neither brother really expresses how they feel and I think Sam is in this situation where he fought so hard to get his brother back, and when the thought he had, he was given a broken shell of what used to be the brother he looked up to. I think that made him angrier, further fueled his need to end Lilith...then came the angels and finding out what Dean did in Hell but realizing that he can't help his brother.
And there is NOTHING as frustrating in the world as not being able to help someone you love when they're in pain. The longer it goes the angrier YOU get, the more bitter about the situation you become until finally you find yourself no longer angry at the situation but angry at the person you wanted to help.
I think that's where Sam is right now. He's so angry, so SO angry and what he said to Dean, probably wasn't ENTIRELY truthful, but parts probably were.
So I don't think it was ENTIRELY out of character...probably fits the "new Sam" we've been seeing this season. But I do agree with one thing you said. I do think that at this point, ending Lilith is all Sam cares about, all Sam sees his life being worth.
I don't think they're trying to make us hate Sam...I think they're trying to show that the season's been hard on him too...he's to his breaking point, he wants it all to end but the ONE way he thinks he has to end it, Dean is so against, and in Sam's eyes Dean's not doing anything to stop it...he's got these Angels that come and go as they please but don't seem to be ending anything.
So really I don't think Sam was OOC....I think we got our first REAL glimpse as the Sam left in the wake of Dean's death...the angry, bitter Sam that is so unlike the Sam from season one.
And I think that once this ends, once Lilith is gone and the Apocalypse has been thwarted, they can allow themselves to heal and be brothers again.
I too do not believe Sam was outta character. I agree with the above comments, and would like to add to them (I hope this makes sense). Sam had an extra reason to be pissed off with Dean at that specific moment. Dean had just called him and insulted him! "what is it with you and monsters!", when, as we all remember, it was Dean that was trying to get him together with Madison. Then he says something like "I'll do this myself" which sounded more like "once again, I have to clean up this mess...". Sam was furious! (phone smashed against the wall! Woohoo!!) He was already all worked up, he was bound to say some nasty things under the influence of the siren's toxins - note that Dean, having said the previous, very nasty things, was NOT yet under the influence of the siren!
Made sense and I agree....I think there too Sam was frustrated with the fact that Dean just went ahead and ASSUMED that Sam was under the Siren's spell...didn't even give him the benefit of the doubt like he usual would. He pretty much treated him like a child and that pissed Sam off ROYALLY.
So really I don't think Sam was OOC....I think we got our first REAL glimpse as the Sam left in the wake of Dean's death...the angry, bitter Sam that is so unlike the Sam from season one.
Like I said above in a comment, I think the "your emo whining about Hell is pissing me off" made me feel Sam was acting OOC, not the "you're slowing me down" part.
And I think that once this ends, once Lilith is gone and the Apocalypse has been thwarted, they can allow themselves to heal and be brothers again.
Like I said above in a comment, I think the "your emo whining about Hell is pissing me off" made me feel Sam was acting OOC, not the "you're slowing me down" part.
^^But see, I think as much as Sam loves his brother...he can get frustrated with him too...I mean, if someone is whining to you about something but won't let you help them...eventually you'd get pissed about it right? Doesn't mean you don't love the person...you just can't stand it anyore.
But I just think that the Sam now is not the Sam of season 1...so he may say some asshole-ish things...but at the same time, he may just be trying to push Dean away...because he probably thinks he won't survive a confrontation with Lilith and doesn't want Dean in its wake either...the further away from him he is, the safer he'll be.
but at the same time, he may just be trying to push Dean away...because he probably thinks he won't survive a confrontation with Lilith and doesn't want Dean in its wake either
That's what crossed my mind too. I think that's more Sam than blaming Dean about feeling bad about his time in Hell, but that's just my opinion. :) I do think that Sam has changed a lot since S1 and he has his flaws but that part of his "speech" just feels wrong to me, somehow.
But see, in my head, it was Sam...this is an angry and bitter Sam who with each passing episode gets angrier, get more bitter...so he's going to say nasty things...his character development may be leading him into a nasty patch. Or hell, for all we know, the Siren juices really does make you say the truth but with a nasty tinge to it.
I just don't think it was OOC because Sam's character has changed so much over 4 seasons it's hard to tell what's IN CHARACTER anymore.
I do get your point and I would've probably liked the scene more if it had been written differently. But you're totally right, it's hard to tell what's in character and what's not, especially when we haven't gotten that much insight of Sam yet this season.
Yeah and that's probably why I'm not all "WTF"...because from Lazarus Rising we've seen a different Sam...so it's hard to tell what's in or out of character for this new Sam.
And I actually like the character developments for Sam and Dean and how it's affecting their relationship.
I can't see the massive change in Sam, just a progression in his character...he was always slightly dark, and I think that's what After School Special was all about (Colin, btw, was once again awesome!)I agree with almost everything you guys are saying, yet I still feel that Sam's speech was appropriate for that moment (and Jared did an awesome job in delivering it!)
Yeah but Sam was never THIS dark...this is a whole different kind of darkness...season 1 he was just kinda broody...but since finding out his dad wanted Dean to kill him if he couldn't save him and then coming back from the dead...that's been a whole new kind of darkness within Sam...I mean how he killed Jake...that's kinda the Sam we're seeing now...just ALL the time instead of in flashes. I think Dean's death pushed him over the edge.
Sorry, what I meant was Sam was always walking a tight rope...and yes, knowing his mother died in his bedroom, then Jessica, then his Dad...and Dean's death ultimately pushed him over the edge. But he was always somehow close to that edge...in fact, that kinda guilt could push anyone over the edge!
EXACTLY...which is why I say that Sam's character in season 4 is the result of being pushed over the edge by Dean's death...hence not knowing if his actions are in character or out of character. :-)
I get your point, really I do! It's just that I never thought Sam was outta character b/c this is always what I thought he would turn into after being pushed over that "edge"! ;D
Haha...then we agree...because I was saying that he wasn't out of character...haha...long drawn out conversations apparently happen when there's miscommunication. ;-)
And there is NOTHING as frustrating in the world as not being able to help someone you love when they're in pain. The longer it goes the angrier YOU get, the more bitter about the situation you become until finally you find yourself no longer angry at the situation but angry at the person you wanted to help.
I think that's where Sam is right now. He's so angry, so SO angry and what he said to Dean, probably wasn't ENTIRELY truthful, but parts probably were.
So I don't think it was ENTIRELY out of character...probably fits the "new Sam" we've been seeing this season. But I do agree with one thing you said. I do think that at this point, ending Lilith is all Sam cares about, all Sam sees his life being worth.
I don't think they're trying to make us hate Sam...I think they're trying to show that the season's been hard on him too...he's to his breaking point, he wants it all to end but the ONE way he thinks he has to end it, Dean is so against, and in Sam's eyes Dean's not doing anything to stop it...he's got these Angels that come and go as they please but don't seem to be ending anything.
So really I don't think Sam was OOC....I think we got our first REAL glimpse as the Sam left in the wake of Dean's death...the angry, bitter Sam that is so unlike the Sam from season one.
And I think that once this ends, once Lilith is gone and the Apocalypse has been thwarted, they can allow themselves to heal and be brothers again.
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Like I said above in a comment, I think the "your emo whining about Hell is pissing me off" made me feel Sam was acting OOC, not the "you're slowing me down" part.
And I think that once this ends, once Lilith is gone and the Apocalypse has been thwarted, they can allow themselves to heal and be brothers again.
I really wish that will happen.
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^^But see, I think as much as Sam loves his brother...he can get frustrated with him too...I mean, if someone is whining to you about something but won't let you help them...eventually you'd get pissed about it right? Doesn't mean you don't love the person...you just can't stand it anyore.
But I just think that the Sam now is not the Sam of season 1...so he may say some asshole-ish things...but at the same time, he may just be trying to push Dean away...because he probably thinks he won't survive a confrontation with Lilith and doesn't want Dean in its wake either...the further away from him he is, the safer he'll be.
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That's what crossed my mind too. I think that's more Sam than blaming Dean about feeling bad about his time in Hell, but that's just my opinion. :) I do think that Sam has changed a lot since S1 and he has his flaws but that part of his "speech" just feels wrong to me, somehow.
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I just don't think it was OOC because Sam's character has changed so much over 4 seasons it's hard to tell what's IN CHARACTER anymore.
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And I actually like the character developments for Sam and Dean and how it's affecting their relationship.
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