I think Sam's powers are passive and not under his conscious control in any way. Sam might not be able to use his powers, but maybe somebody else who knows how could, if they got ahold of him-kind of like a remote control device (Sam, the demonic garage door opener!). I've always been kind of "meh" about the powers, they're too deus ex machina for me
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I thought the episode was really good. I HATE Dean in hell! But I really have felt that he had to go there - otherwise it's like the "bad episode" of Itchy and Scratchy (with Poochy?) where they keep talking about the firework factory and they never get there
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Not to take the part of the God-squad, but...thaliaeMay 18 2008, 09:36:08 UTC
"Dean, in the normal course of things, would not have been destined for hell,"I find this comment a lot in the fandom, and going round about John too, and I got to say, I understand it, but if we accept (as the show does) that catholicism - and so the christian ethos - has power, then the facts are simple
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The thing that keeps occurring over and over to me is the phrase that "The Devil is the father of liars". Along with C. S. Lewis' "You can't do a bad act for good reasons and vice-versa." Sacrificing yourself to save someone else is a good things. Therefore, to sacrifice yourself to save someone else from hell, is a good deed, and you can't do a good deed for the Devil.
So what I would argue is that the only reason Dean and/or John was in Hell was because they thought they should be, and where they are isn't Hell, it's just where their minds and the Devil's lies have trapped them. Once they realize it's a lie, they can get out.
Nice bundle of thoughts, from you and those who have answered. :-)
With nice clear hind sight, though I desperately wanted Sammy Powers, and for Dean to be saved, this is Kripke's story, and I admire and respect him all the more for not copping out. This is going somewhere. We don't know where, only Eric does, and the ending of this season is a step along that road.
Now that we're free to speculate until season four, here are my still slightly knee-jerk thoughts of the points you raised.
I suspect that the reason Sam doesn't control his powers is because he rejects them, in a very deep way, perhaps for many reasons, including the one Ruby brought up - that he hates the way Dean looks at him sometimes, like a freak, and because he is still carrying the secret of where they came from - he never told Dean about the flashback vision YED gave him of being fed the demon blood as a baby. It revolted him, and I think he believes it would revolt his brother. I don't think it's a question of choosing admit to being something awful or watch
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I like how you think, datenshiblue. You've pretty much summed up a lot of what I've been thinking about over the weekend. It is Kripke's world and we're just grasping at it. I also found it interesting that our view of Dean in Hell is seeing him alone. Dean's whole world has been about doing for other's; whether its taking care of brother Sammy, being the perfect soldier for his father, or helping people by getting rid of evil things -- he's doing for others. Now he's all by himself and suffering.
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So what I would argue is that the only reason Dean and/or John was in Hell was because they thought they should be, and where they are isn't Hell, it's just where their minds and the Devil's lies have trapped them. Once they realize it's a lie, they can get out.
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With nice clear hind sight, though I desperately wanted Sammy Powers, and for Dean to be saved, this is Kripke's story, and I admire and respect him all the more for not copping out. This is going somewhere. We don't know where, only Eric does, and the ending of this season is a step along that road.
Now that we're free to speculate until season four, here are my still slightly knee-jerk thoughts of the points you raised.
I suspect that the reason Sam doesn't control his powers is because he rejects them, in a very deep way, perhaps for many reasons, including the one Ruby brought up - that he hates the way Dean looks at him sometimes, like a freak, and because he is still carrying the secret of where they came from - he never told Dean about the flashback vision YED gave him of being fed the demon blood as a baby. It revolted him, and I think he believes it would revolt his brother. I don't think it's a question of choosing admit to being something awful or watch ( ... )
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