It certainly raises some good points and breaks the story down in an interesting way, but I'm not a fan of being told that anyone who criticizes the ending "doesn't appreciate anything with more nuance than Eastenders". *Shrugs*
Yeah, not a huge fan of that, either. I wish people with interesting things to say wouldn't feel they had to insult those with other opinions. It's hardly necessary.
Yeah, it would be nice if fans gave one another a bit more consideration. I mean, it's something you learn in high school English: your teacher might love a book, you might love a book, you all might hate a book, or any variation thereof. You might think Holden Caulfield is a great character in a book full of really interesting messages and symbols, and someone else might see the same thing as contrived, pretentious, and just plain bad.
And that's okay.
Personal taste and different perspectives on writing aren't indicative of anyone's intelligence or lack thereof.
Some very good thinking and accurate to horror tropes, although I could have lived without the last line that boiled down to "anyone who doesn't like it has a problem."
CoE is fitting rather neatly into the discussion of fic warnings that went through fandom a few weeks ago. When it was described in all the prepublicity as exciting and particularly fulfilling on the Jack/Ianto front, there's an arguable amount of bait and switch. Whereas if it had been called dark and difficult and thought-provoking, people would have been able to make up their minds if that was what they wanted to see.
I think some of the general frustration with those who liked the miniseries vs. those who didn't is that the perception is--and, mind you, I don't think it's entirely wrong--that a great deal of the griping and screeching about the ending is coming from angry Jack/Ianto 'shippers. Nothing seems to attract fannish contempt more than highly vocal 'shippers. Unfortunately, that tar is also being used to paint those for whom the miniseries Just Didn't Do It.
a great deal of the griping and screeching about the ending is coming from angry Jack/Ianto 'shippers
Much of it is, I don't deny it. But ending any argument on any side with "if you don't agree I judge you" is just plain wanky.
With every day that passes I'm reminded more of the Beauty and the Beast war. The sides were very black and white - either you wanted Catherine back or you didn't. Except that there I didn't fit neatly into the holes either, because I found the writing out of Catherine nihilistic, overly angsty, and out of character - but I also didn't dislike Diana for existing. I didn't so much pick a side as get assigned one.
That article is exactly why I refuse to watch the show when it comes on BBC America:
1) I'm not a fan of TV shows where everybody dies, loses or fails. I saw that with Forever Knight's infamous finale. I don't CARE how brilliant the downer ending is--it's not my kind of thing.
Books, yes. I can deal with books with downer endings. (If I couldn't, I wouldn't have read Turn Coat.) But TV hits harder. It's live action, it's in your face and it's happening right now in front of you. It's much more difficult to take
( ... )
1) It's definitely hard to watch, and while I appreciated it for what it was, I certainly wouldn't recommend it to *everyone*. It hurts. If you're not okay with watching something that will hurt you, definitely stay away. I'm the last person who'll criticize you for that, considering that's exactly the reason I didn't watch BSG after the first season. I had a feeling that show would hurt me, and from what I hear, I was right. For a five-part miniseries, though, I can take the hurt, as long as I feel like it's worth it.
2) Also hearing you here. I think the review raises an awful lot of good points, but the author needs to dial down her criticism of those who didn't like it. "YMMV" is always the last word in fandom, and what does it for one person may not do it for another.
Downer endings are kind of rough, yeah. Sometimes, even with books - speaking from personal experience, On the Beach and Nineteen Eighty-Four were draining to get through. The "it was all for nothing, and less than nothing" endings are tough.
(Oddly, I didn't see that in Turn Coat. I read Morgan's last lesson more as "you don't win them all, but that doesn't mean you quit trying".)
I think what got me in Turn Coat was that the Senior Council members suspected that Morgan was innocent, but were willing to kill him anyway to shut up LaFortier's faction and keep the Council together. From a pragmatic standpoint, I can understand the decision. From a moral standpoint...the Council no longer has a justification for existing. They are killing their own people for the sake of power. There is no way that I can look at that and call it good
( ... )
Yeah, defniite loss-of-innocence moment there. But then, Harry's not just responsible for himself by the end of Turn Coat - don't forget the Doom of Damocles; Molly would have been disintegrated about three and a half seconds later.
(And I've got this feeling that even if the Council's invalidated its moral authority, it's the only thing keeping the human wizards from getting diced and destroyed by whatever they're facing. Which isn't just the Red Court anymore. So, not a good idea to fracture the community, or to cut the legs out from the Council unless you've got something ready to take its place, such as, oh, say, a Gray Council.)
(There's a whole theory I've got about how the American Revolution only succeeded because they already had a government structure ready to replace the British colonial government system, but that's for another time...)
If I were Harry, I'd have given Molly's apprenticeship over to someone else by now, for two reasons:
1) Harry's magic and Molly's have nothing in common, aside from being magic. Harry's a magical thug; Molly's a sensitive. His being her teacher is like an Olympic swimmer trying to teach a talented young hockey player to play ice hockey. He has the power. He has the skill. But he isn't operating in the right field of expertise. He can't teach her to to use her power properly because he's barely capable of mental magic. And this isn't doing either of them any good.
2) Molly is getting worse, not better. She's invaded the minds of four people without their consent (Rosie, Nelson, Harry and Luccio). Make that "four people that we know of," because this is highly addictive black magic she's practicing...and she was on her own, doing exactly what she felt like doing, for two years before she was caught. The odds are that there are other victims out there
( ... )
It's funny; I haven't seen a single episode of Torchwood, but I have been following the drama of CoE with some interest. I think the author did hit the nail on the head that those guys do great horror. While I haven't seen CoE (and probably never will-- I'm way too sensitive over that kind of stuff)I know that some of the scariest TV I have seen was in the first series of DW with Nine.
To date, my scariest TV moment was watching The Empty Child. I had nightmares for weeks. I still get skeeved if I think about it too much, and gas masks freak me out now. :-P Don't even ask me if I'm your mummy. *shudder*
If CoE was half as scary/impactful as that ep (and I'm betting it was a lot worse, from what I gather) then that is indeed masterful horror at it's best. That team really know what they are doing!
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And that's okay.
Personal taste and different perspectives on writing aren't indicative of anyone's intelligence or lack thereof.
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CoE is fitting rather neatly into the discussion of fic warnings that went through fandom a few weeks ago. When it was described in all the prepublicity as exciting and particularly fulfilling on the Jack/Ianto front, there's an arguable amount of bait and switch. Whereas if it had been called dark and difficult and thought-provoking, people would have been able to make up their minds if that was what they wanted to see.
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Much of it is, I don't deny it. But ending any argument on any side with "if you don't agree I judge you" is just plain wanky.
With every day that passes I'm reminded more of the Beauty and the Beast war. The sides were very black and white - either you wanted Catherine back or you didn't. Except that there I didn't fit neatly into the holes either, because I found the writing out of Catherine nihilistic, overly angsty, and out of character - but I also didn't dislike Diana for existing. I didn't so much pick a side as get assigned one.
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1) I'm not a fan of TV shows where everybody dies, loses or fails. I saw that with Forever Knight's infamous finale. I don't CARE how brilliant the downer ending is--it's not my kind of thing.
Books, yes. I can deal with books with downer endings. (If I couldn't, I wouldn't have read Turn Coat.) But TV hits harder. It's live action, it's in your face and it's happening right now in front of you. It's much more difficult to take ( ... )
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2) Also hearing you here. I think the review raises an awful lot of good points, but the author needs to dial down her criticism of those who didn't like it. "YMMV" is always the last word in fandom, and what does it for one person may not do it for another.
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(Oddly, I didn't see that in Turn Coat. I read Morgan's last lesson more as "you don't win them all, but that doesn't mean you quit trying".)
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(And I've got this feeling that even if the Council's invalidated its moral authority, it's the only thing keeping the human wizards from getting diced and destroyed by whatever they're facing. Which isn't just the Red Court anymore. So, not a good idea to fracture the community, or to cut the legs out from the Council unless you've got something ready to take its place, such as, oh, say, a Gray Council.)
(There's a whole theory I've got about how the American Revolution only succeeded because they already had a government structure ready to replace the British colonial government system, but that's for another time...)
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1) Harry's magic and Molly's have nothing in common, aside from being magic. Harry's a magical thug; Molly's a sensitive. His being her teacher is like an Olympic swimmer trying to teach a talented young hockey player to play ice hockey. He has the power. He has the skill. But he isn't operating in the right field of expertise. He can't teach her to to use her power properly because he's barely capable of mental magic. And this isn't doing either of them any good.
2) Molly is getting worse, not better. She's invaded the minds of four people without their consent (Rosie, Nelson, Harry and Luccio). Make that "four people that we know of," because this is highly addictive black magic she's practicing...and she was on her own, doing exactly what she felt like doing, for two years before she was caught. The odds are that there are other victims out there ( ... )
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To date, my scariest TV moment was watching The Empty Child. I had nightmares for weeks. I still get skeeved if I think about it too much, and gas masks freak me out now. :-P Don't even ask me if I'm your mummy. *shudder*
If CoE was half as scary/impactful as that ep (and I'm betting it was a lot worse, from what I gather) then that is indeed masterful horror at it's best. That team really know what they are doing!
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