this is really interesting, you've pretty much summed up how I approach fanfics/shipping this kind of stuff in fandom (it used to weird me out reading fiction about real people, but i'm in too deep now). i'm not really a writer but i do enjoy reading fic so this was a good read :3
hahaha I never thought it was weird (since I got into it at a rly young age??) but these days it's good to remember there's a huge difference between the real people and what I read/write about haha. they become almost like totally fictional ppl to me in a fic. ~o~
this is an interesting read and i won't lie, i sort of jumped when it appeared on my tumblr dash since i was having the exact same discussion with a friend the other day. it's interesting how much backbone and discussion there is to fanfiction~ especially since, maybe i was corrupted young (definitely corrupted young), but from fandom to fandom, books --- > anime/manga ---> j-pop ---> k-pop, i sort of just took everything in stride. fanfics were just always part of fandom to me
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ooh, i actually think this excerpt from one of your articles linked makes another worthy point -- about collaborative space and whatnot:
The problem I see with such an approach is that it willfully ignores the ethical issues inherent in RPF by simply ignoring its reality aspect (however codified or fictionalized they may be). It is similar to the defense some popslash fans started with by perceiving boybands as artificially constructed and therefore less "real" than normal people, so that it would be OK to fictionalize them but not others. Whether the repeatedly voiced reproach of boy bands’ fakeness is true or relevant, the bands’ success in large parts relies on their ability to satisfy clearly defined-and manufactured-desires by enacting certain roles that may or may not be who they “really” are. This is where RPF picks up. Acknowledging the artificiality of their construction, the fanfic writers buy into this construction to a certain extent at the same time as they try to move beyond it. In other words, while we have to believe
( ... )
lmao yeah fanfiction writers tend to be incredibly verbose (and often eloquent) people with a lot of THOUGHTS and FEELINGS so it's no surprise that there's so much meta and discussion to it, really. I started rly young, too! I guess that's why I was pretty much jumping head-first into everything without much thought. RPF just seemed a natural step for me
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I find the difference between K-pop fandom and other RPF fandoms quite fascinating. I used to be in bandom as well, and I actually felt weirded out about RPF after meeting some of the bands. Yet after seeing some of the Kpop bands irl, their RPF selves felt totally disconnected from reality for me! My only thought while seeing these Kpop people irl was "wow, they are amazing, amazing performers." I wonder why there's this difference! Is it because Kpop idols remain "performers" irl when they're in front of the fans? Is it because their image is so well constructed? I feel like the less we know about the Real Person irl, the easier it is for them to remain simple Fictional in our heads. I think there's also this aspect of language and culture barrier when it comes to Kpop, making it even harder for international fans to really "relate" to the Real Person.
LOL same. Met GWay once and that was the end of Chem slash for me. It might be something to do with the fact that they're all getting married and having kids now too. Makes it feel weird to read about them getting down and dirty with eachother :/
You're totally right about the language barrier keeping the ~real person a little further from us too. When I've seen them perform I've never got the impression that they're letting themselves go the way a band would. They always remain completely on message, concentrating on the next step and the next 'adlib'. The only time anything ever broke through my OMGLOOKITSTHEINTERNETDANCINGPUPPETSeleven was Hae's hilari-blatent 'yeah you girls all want a peice of me' attitude, which doesn't come across quite so strongly in the mvs :D (He was right ofcourse)
This is an amazing post and I agree 110% with everything you said! It took me time to get used to RPF myself, lol, but I think very much there's the idea of the persona vs. the real person, especially since the glimpses of a person's personality that you see, even when not being obscured by assigned personalities, are so conflicting and messy. This is an awesome post :D
haha thank you i'm glad you enjoyed it~ it really is very hard to capture a person's personality, even when you know that person irl, with the exception of close friends and family. i think sometimes we find even our own personality is conflicting and messy and ever-changing from year to year! so yep, RPF characterisation? so much of a nightmare over pre-determined FPF characterisation lol.
i have been trying for the past few weeks to not put you on a pedestal but clearly you are someone to be admired shitfuckdamndickscocksfjakd;gakgagj;agdkafjj;adfladjl;
i also wish i could say i disagree with you somewhere in this but i super agree. especially about the reasons for boarding the slash train. and the quote to describe the 3rd type of Persona is just UGHHHH SO REAL. i've always kind of seen idols as exaggerated characters on the stage called kpop. i think mostly because i feel better about myself for objectifying real people who MAYBE JUST MAYBE have real feelings. idkfadkajkfa;kgj;ag;
about tinhats crossing the real life line, while i absolutely do not agree with how crazy they are, i do think it helps the band. at first, at least. it seems like the more management hears "kaihan hunhan baekyeol" out in the open, the harder those members will ship themselves. more spotlight. at least i think so lol but yeah fuck dat crazy tinhat noise
hahahaha omg i surely am cannot be someone to be put on a pedestal /o\
the thing about kpop is it encourages the objectification/oversimplification of a real person though. if you notice how all the idols introduce themselves in the beginning, "i am exo-k's ~sexy dancing masheen" etc. it's very clear that the strategy is to reduce the idols to the basic image/keywords easy for the public to remember and latch onto.
yeaaah i suppose it's true that the tinhats really do help since INTENSE EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT lol. sometimes i think the idols realize this, too and use it as a ploy to get more attention. it's true that if you gay it up with your bandmate, the fangirls will scream and fawn over you, lol. i still get severe secondhand embarrassment when the tinhats go crazy and the idols are clearly awkward/embarrassed about it tho.
LOL maaaan although it's encouraged, i still feel pretty bad about it. they are young naive things in a twisted industry :( or rather i think i have qualms with how the objectification is expressed. lol again agreeing with the whole respecting the person in your mind versus the person IRL
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The problem I see with such an approach is that it willfully ignores the ethical issues inherent in RPF by simply ignoring its reality aspect (however codified or fictionalized they may be). It is similar to the defense some popslash fans started with by perceiving boybands as artificially constructed and therefore less "real" than normal people, so that it would be OK to fictionalize them but not others. Whether the repeatedly voiced reproach of boy bands’ fakeness is true or relevant, the bands’ success in large parts relies on their ability to satisfy clearly defined-and manufactured-desires by enacting certain roles that may or may not be who they “really” are. This is where RPF picks up. Acknowledging the artificiality of their construction, the fanfic writers buy into this construction to a certain extent at the same time as they try to move beyond it. In other words, while we have to believe ( ... )
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I find the difference between K-pop fandom and other RPF fandoms quite fascinating. I used to be in bandom as well, and I actually felt weirded out about RPF after meeting some of the bands. Yet after seeing some of the Kpop bands irl, their RPF selves felt totally disconnected from reality for me! My only thought while seeing these Kpop people irl was "wow, they are amazing, amazing performers." I wonder why there's this difference! Is it because Kpop idols remain "performers" irl when they're in front of the fans? Is it because their image is so well constructed? I feel like the less we know about the Real Person irl, the easier it is for them to remain simple Fictional in our heads. I think there's also this aspect of language and culture barrier when it comes to Kpop, making it even harder for international fans to really "relate" to the Real Person.
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You're totally right about the language barrier keeping the ~real person a little further from us too. When I've seen them perform I've never got the impression that they're letting themselves go the way a band would. They always remain completely on message, concentrating on the next step and the next 'adlib'. The only time anything ever broke through my OMGLOOKITSTHEINTERNETDANCINGPUPPETSeleven was Hae's hilari-blatent 'yeah you girls all want a peice of me' attitude, which doesn't come across quite so strongly in the mvs :D (He was right ofcourse)
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it really is very hard to capture a person's personality, even when you know that person irl, with the exception of close friends and family. i think sometimes we find even our own personality is conflicting and messy and ever-changing from year to year! so yep, RPF characterisation? so much of a nightmare over pre-determined FPF characterisation lol.
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i also wish i could say i disagree with you somewhere in this but i super agree. especially about the reasons for boarding the slash train. and the quote to describe the 3rd type of Persona is just UGHHHH SO REAL. i've always kind of seen idols as exaggerated characters on the stage called kpop. i think mostly because i feel better about myself for objectifying real people who MAYBE JUST MAYBE have real feelings. idkfadkajkfa;kgj;ag;
about tinhats crossing the real life line, while i absolutely do not agree with how crazy they are, i do think it helps the band. at first, at least. it seems like the more management hears "kaihan hunhan baekyeol" out in the open, the harder those members will ship themselves. more spotlight. at least i think so lol but yeah fuck dat crazy tinhat noise
ok thnx will pass this around also!
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the thing about kpop is it encourages the objectification/oversimplification of a real person though. if you notice how all the idols introduce themselves in the beginning, "i am exo-k's ~sexy dancing masheen" etc. it's very clear that the strategy is to reduce the idols to the basic image/keywords easy for the public to remember and latch onto.
yeaaah i suppose it's true that the tinhats really do help since INTENSE EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT lol. sometimes i think the idols realize this, too and use it as a ploy to get more attention. it's true that if you gay it up with your bandmate, the fangirls will scream and fawn over you, lol. i still get severe secondhand embarrassment when the tinhats go crazy and the idols are clearly awkward/embarrassed about it tho.
thank you for sharing your thoughts!
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LOL maaaan although it's encouraged, i still feel pretty bad about it. they are young naive things in a twisted industry :(
or rather i think i have qualms with how the objectification is expressed. lol again agreeing with the whole respecting the person in your mind versus the person IRL
af;afdk;afk;jfdafadfkj
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