About last night

[girliejones]

I feel a need to post a follow up post to what happened yesterday and last night here. The specific comments from the other person were deleted by that person but many people read them as they were being posted and followed the discussion as it happened

Comments

[mikandra]

The thing is, you *are* being heard. The FAM project is wonderful and positive.

My view is this: once you start arguing with another person, no matter how valid the point, you have lost them as a listener, and potentially as a friend. In situations like that, I try to make my point once, and walk away. You will never argue someone into seeing your point of view in a single discussion. If anything, they'll be galvanised into becoming stubbornly attached to the opposite of what you're saying. But if you make a well-founded argument and then step back, people will go home think about it, maybe for months, and next time they may be more understanding to your point of view.

Just my $0.02

[girliejones]

I think you speak a lot of truth here. The hard thing for me is to walk away, especially when the person is a friend or someone I would to become a friend. But maybe my life would have a lot less drama, to quote someone at work, if I did walk away from these things.

It's hard though to feel like that's not being shut down, I guess. But again, maybe that's in how awesomely you walk away :)

I don't think I'm completely being unheard, I definitely feel heard by some people. I guess here, I was probably specifically referring to one person.

[girliejones]

Hey dude, I didn't think you meant me when you were talking about the behaviour but not wanting to be seen doing that was why I didn't continue the discussion on my blog. I feel ... uncomfortable about that choice, tbh.

As for Peter - his comments in your post should be required reading. He really *gets* it.

Thanks dude.

[narrelle]

Sorry to hear this has been going on. I was reminded of this Rebecca West quote as I read this:

"I myself have never been able to find out what feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute."

[girliejones]

Precisely. Thank you

[cassiphone]

Yes, this, exactly this.

*hugs*

I stopped talking on this subject (cos I can't afford the stress of being angry/upset right now, like you said to me privately, DON'T GO INTO LABOUR), but I didn't stop reading and listening.

(on a side note but relevant to your post here, it really really bothers me that recent examples of women agreeing with each other that certain opinions/behaviours are inappropriate and getting angry about it have been characterised as 'mob rule' and 'bullying'.)

I find it grimly ironic that the 'argument' started because of a comment I made about the hurt of sexism/anti-female behaviour vs. the hurt reaction of someone being called out on said behaviour... and then we got to see it in action. It felt bizarrely inevitable.

I'm still hurting over it, but I don't really want to enact that hurt in public. I am really proud of transcendancing for her clear, calm explanations of what was going on (I feel like she took on my job after I stepped away), and I think it's a real shame that the comments were deleted, thus rendering a

[girliejones]

I too am concerned that women voicing how they feel, and supporting others who are voicing how they feel by saying "yes, me too, not just you" is seen as bullying or mob behaviour. What's the behaviour that causes the reaction called and why's that not so looked down upon?

I'm still hurting too and I agree with what you say. I thought mynxii was awesome because she clarified so articulately exactly what it was that was upsetting me - I couldn't actually verbalise it or see past it. She was awesome and I know that it was hard for her and not something she normally gives her energy to. It helped me a lot, both in the argument and in crystallising my thought, and I thank her for that.

And thank you for all your support and care and hugs. And for listening.

[karenmiller]

Take a deep breath. At the root of all this, I think, is the need to be liked by everyone no matter what your position is on something. That's not ever going to happen. If you have a belief and you stand up for that belief, even without denigrating someone else who doesn't share it, you are going to cop shit. Because some people see disagreement as a personal attack. So decide, once for all, what you want -- an honest life, which means being disliked for what you think and feel sometimes, or a compliant life, where you never make waves and you never risk bending someone out of joint because you speak up for what you think is right, which means a life in which every day you die a little

[girliejones]

Thank you Karen. I needed to hear this today. You're right in that I need to be unapologetic - thoughtful before I speak but not feel it needs to please everyone or be responsible for how they feel about my position.

I do think it's about always being liked and yet I know that is not possible.

[lyndarama]

Well, as a wise woman said once 'If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit by me'.

Lol.

[callistra]

Ha, I think you left of the

"... and tell me what it is!"

LOL
:-)