About last night

[girliejones]

I feel a need to post a follow up post to what happened yesterday and last night here. The specific comments from the other person were deleted by that person but many people read them as they were being posted and followed the discussion as it happened

Comments

[karenmiller]

Take a deep breath. At the root of all this, I think, is the need to be liked by everyone no matter what your position is on something. That's not ever going to happen. If you have a belief and you stand up for that belief, even without denigrating someone else who doesn't share it, you are going to cop shit. Because some people see disagreement as a personal attack. So decide, once for all, what you want -- an honest life, which means being disliked for what you think and feel sometimes, or a compliant life, where you never make waves and you never risk bending someone out of joint because you speak up for what you think is right, which means a life in which every day you die a little.

You don't always have to speak up with your opinion. Sometimes it's not worth it. But if you decide to speak up, speak up, don't apologise, and if someone else chooses to give you shit over it, walk away. The greatest power you can have in your life is the ability to walk away at any given moment -- from a job, a relationship, a friendship, a political affiliation. Anything. The minute you can't walk away you're trapped. And the minute you're trapped you start to compromise yourself.

You are only responsible for how you frame your views. If you know absolutely that you are always respectful and never denigrate another viewpoint, then you've done what needs to be done. You are not ever responsible for how someone else feels about what you think.. That's their shit, not yours.

[girliejones]

Thank you Karen. I needed to hear this today. You're right in that I need to be unapologetic - thoughtful before I speak but not feel it needs to please everyone or be responsible for how they feel about my position.

I do think it's about always being liked and yet I know that is not possible.

[lyndarama]

Well, as a wise woman said once 'If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit by me'.

Lol.

[callistra]

Ha, I think you left of the

"... and tell me what it is!"

LOL
:-)

[girliejones]

'cept i don't think what I said wasn't nice.

[karenmiller]

It's probably the most pernicious of all female conditioning in our society, the notion that should we ever assert our rights as human beings, that if we should ever say no, I won't, I don't agree, not tonight, I don't like that ... we are annihilated with fear and guilt. That somehow being nice, being liked, not 'hurting someone else's feelings' is more important than our own sense of value and our mental health. At the end of the day we teach other people how to treat us. And at the end of the day if we refuse to play the game by rules we've rejected as unfair, we will pay a price. And that's the choice. But to me it's a no brainer. If we all quietly and firmly refuse to take the shit, refuse to play the game, things will change. By sheer force of momentum. But getting loud and aggressive and stuff doesn't achieve anything. Massive sprawling internet arguments don't help anything. You state your case, you make it plain, and you move on. You don't give away free ammunition.

To even frame the discussion as -- oh dear, if I stand up for myself I'm saying that my feelings are more important than his/hers, so I have to deny myself to keep them happy or I am an evil person ... what kind of shit is this? Absolutely, my feelings matter most -- to me. Don't ever ask me to diminish myself to make you feel better. No human being of value asks another human being to diminish him or herself in order to prop up their diseased ego. And likewise, you not agreeing with me doesn't make you evil. It means we don't agree. Big whoop. The world will not end because you don't think the way I think. If you think heinous things, things I can't countenance, then I'll walk away. And you're free to do the same to me.

If I decide to take issue with your position on something, or vice versa, then fine. But that doesn't mean you have to agree and it doesn't mean I have to change my mind to keep you happy.. And vice versa.

Here's the thing. Just because you want to be heard doesn't mean you will be. On anything. But you still make your point. You say what you think. And you will be heard or you won't be. But you make your point and you move on. If there's an interesting discussion to be had about it, fine. And good might well come of it. But don't have any expectations and don't try to make people hear you or understand you. Say your piece calmly and quietly and move on ... and when you look behind you you'll see a lot of people following. And by natural attrition, the dinosaurs will die out.