About last night

[girliejones]

I feel a need to post a follow up post to what happened yesterday and last night here. The specific comments from the other person were deleted by that person but many people read them as they were being posted and followed the discussion as it happened

Comments

[girliejones]

Thank you for this comment. It's very special to me - I have very much enjoyed talking to you about similar issues in person.

And yes, I think you perfectly explain here something that I have been grappling to express myself for several weeks and with several different people.

[callistra]

This whole series of discussions has been fascinating for me. Ben's insistence that every one just needs to listen more seemed to get sunk the more he ignored his own advice and argued with everyone who was talking about the mechanics of listening when you're in the weaker position. And I got to admire peter M Ball's brain. Gosh, it *is* pretty

[transcendancing]

If you saw that one did you see the rape jokes one too? It was similarly incredible - up to and including the comments (some brilliant articles all on their own in the comments).

[girliejones]

I tend not to discuss the basic tenets of feminism with people who are not already conversant with that topic.

This is I think where I personally am moving towards. But ... what then? How does the rest happen if people who are conversant no longer wish to engage on the topic to those who are not? Do we just ... exist in spaces that are welcoming and avoid those that are not?

These posts have made me feel welcomed and a part; and I'm sorry this has come at such a personal cost to you. Thank you for being a voice that speaks.

Thank you for this.

I also thought that article the other day is one of the most briliant articles I have seen talking about the issues of power dynamics in every day conversation and actions which eventually leads to rape, and the external messages we give our females. Really awesome, and very brave of you to discuss your related experiences. I think every woman has related experiences, which is another reason why Ben's discussion rankled; he was talking so much about listening, and he wasn't (as far as I

[amandapillar]

I agree with your point and I don't know if it is only restricted to women. From a very young age we're taught to not hurt other people. That other people's feelings are more important than our own - this starts in the family, a lot of the time

[petermball]

To be fair, it's always gone both ways. Rewind to the days before feminist discorse and, inevitably, there were assertive women who dominated their husbands - genders aren't people, after all. But I think (not to put words in Girliejones' mouth) that what's being talking about is the way things are perceived when certain behaviours are exhibited by different genders, and that's a slightly different kettle of fish

[transcendancing]

did you get a chance to see the blog that provoked a fair portion of the angst?

There were 2 posts in particular that were hard hitting, precise and incredible in their resonance with other women.

I can link you if you're interested - though I'm sure I linked to them in my recent post on the subject.

Also, thank you for just getting it. It's not a cookie, today it's just relief that a conversation with you isn't fraught or draining or require a whole lot of work. Because really, so many of them are, even if we try and consciously limit this.

[amandapillar]

Oh yes, I know what you are saying. I was just saying that the expectation to put other peoples' feelings first is a concern for men and women - and it is family dependent (to an extent).

I see what you mean about the expectation to be treated equally when men don't think about it at all.

But after just spending 3 weeks in a society where women have defined roles, I realise how far Australian society has come... (with still more to go).

[buymeaclue]

I missed the incident and fallout, apparently, but I'm sorry you had a rough night. Take care.

[girliejones]

Thank you.

[idling]

Your excellent post reminds me of this great shirt:

[girliejones]

Great tshirt