this is a really cheap update, as am basically borrowing other people's words
I have been meaning to make a Persona 4 post for a long time, but for various reasons I hadn't yet done so. However, a couple of days ago, I stumbled upon a dreamwidth post that captured my feelings on the game pretty damn perfectly.
One of the reasons I haven't said anything before now is that my opinion of P4 is... not particularly favourable. I have a lot of people on my friendslist who really like the game, and I don't want to seem like a jerk, you know? Which is WEIRD since I'm not usually hesitant about sharing my opinions, but... maybe it's because I don't simply dislike P4, I find it... well, pretty offensive, I guess. Offensive initally seemed like too strong of a word, but it probably is the most appropriate.
Masculinity, Misogyny, Murder
Gender Trouble in Persona 4
The article contains spoilers for the main plot and some social links. Also, it's not entirely negative, and I conveniently agree on the positives as well (I'm looking at you, Kanji's issues re: masculinity).
I am going to quote this part, because it is MORE OR LESS spoiler free and it's the scene that's stood out to me the most so far (I haven't actually finished the game yet).And when the evil becomes less overt than strangling and imprisonment, the game really falls down on the job. Less violent instances of objectification are treated not only as harmless but as occasions for enjoyment. Both the school camping trip and the cultural festival demonstrate this issue. At the end of the school trip -- to cap off a series of "jokes" on subjects like homophobia, sizeism, and girls' worth correlating to their cooking skill -- Yosuke insists that as a result of their failure at domestic tasks, Chie and Yukiko "owe" him and should pay him back by putting on bikinis so he can see them. The girls object to "having" to do it but don't question his right to demand payment (or the assertion that the failure was theirs -- that somehow it would have been impossible for the boys to make their own food, so the girls are wholly and solely responsible for everyone going hungry the night before). Already bad enough, but the player's only dialogue choices are between enjoying the spectacle and implying that the girls are not attractive enough. The objectifying behavior (like the previous night's homophobic panic) is taken as a given, not something the player has the option to reject.
THESE ACTS OF OBJECTIFICATION ARE PART OF THE SAME CONTINUUM. The difference is one of degree, not of kind. Yosuke's "You owe us," is the same willingness to ignore female self-determination as [SPOILERS]. Both presume that the woman is there for the man's gratification, not for her own purposes. But Yosuke is the main character's best friend, and [SPOILERS]. In effect, only the violence is treated as villainous; the sexism is presumed to be not only excusable but natural.
(Incidentally, it wasn't just because of the cooking incident. It was also because Chie and Yukiko end up spending the night in the boy's tent, hiding out. Why? In not so many words, it's a direct result of Yosuke's whiny homophobic protestations about sharing a tent with confused-about-his-sexuality Kanji. But you know. They owe him.)
So... yeah. I probably will finish Persona 4 sooner or later, I am working on it slowly but surely. I do like some of the characters (Kanji, Chie, Yukiko). But it just... leaves a really, really bad taste in my mouth.
One of the reasons I haven't said anything before now is that my opinion of P4 is... not particularly favourable. I have a lot of people on my friendslist who really like the game, and I don't want to seem like a jerk, you know? Which is WEIRD since I'm not usually hesitant about sharing my opinions, but... maybe it's because I don't simply dislike P4, I find it... well, pretty offensive, I guess. Offensive initally seemed like too strong of a word, but it probably is the most appropriate.
Masculinity, Misogyny, Murder
Gender Trouble in Persona 4
The article contains spoilers for the main plot and some social links. Also, it's not entirely negative, and I conveniently agree on the positives as well (I'm looking at you, Kanji's issues re: masculinity).
I am going to quote this part, because it is MORE OR LESS spoiler free and it's the scene that's stood out to me the most so far (I haven't actually finished the game yet).And when the evil becomes less overt than strangling and imprisonment, the game really falls down on the job. Less violent instances of objectification are treated not only as harmless but as occasions for enjoyment. Both the school camping trip and the cultural festival demonstrate this issue. At the end of the school trip -- to cap off a series of "jokes" on subjects like homophobia, sizeism, and girls' worth correlating to their cooking skill -- Yosuke insists that as a result of their failure at domestic tasks, Chie and Yukiko "owe" him and should pay him back by putting on bikinis so he can see them. The girls object to "having" to do it but don't question his right to demand payment (or the assertion that the failure was theirs -- that somehow it would have been impossible for the boys to make their own food, so the girls are wholly and solely responsible for everyone going hungry the night before). Already bad enough, but the player's only dialogue choices are between enjoying the spectacle and implying that the girls are not attractive enough. The objectifying behavior (like the previous night's homophobic panic) is taken as a given, not something the player has the option to reject.
THESE ACTS OF OBJECTIFICATION ARE PART OF THE SAME CONTINUUM. The difference is one of degree, not of kind. Yosuke's "You owe us," is the same willingness to ignore female self-determination as [SPOILERS]. Both presume that the woman is there for the man's gratification, not for her own purposes. But Yosuke is the main character's best friend, and [SPOILERS]. In effect, only the violence is treated as villainous; the sexism is presumed to be not only excusable but natural.
(Incidentally, it wasn't just because of the cooking incident. It was also because Chie and Yukiko end up spending the night in the boy's tent, hiding out. Why? In not so many words, it's a direct result of Yosuke's whiny homophobic protestations about sharing a tent with confused-about-his-sexuality Kanji. But you know. They owe him.)
So... yeah. I probably will finish Persona 4 sooner or later, I am working on it slowly but surely. I do like some of the characters (Kanji, Chie, Yukiko). But it just... leaves a really, really bad taste in my mouth.