While the water is warm....

[trannylucas]

Ok, I guess I'll jump in with my thoughts on these matters. I'm opening up a different thread because I have a few different thoughts that don't really pertain to who gets to post in this particular community ... just random mind-farts about this whole movement around transitioning

Comments

[usedtobeme]

since we are discussing the forbidden...what are your thoughts on autogynephelia? used often by docs to describe some in the MTF community..to refer to those who tranisition because they are aroused by the thought of themselves in female bodies/roles....i wonder if perhaps there is something to this..and that it may occur within FTM circles as well..

[adamc114]

I'm not against the idea of transitioning at a younger age (I would have started to get the ball rolling at a younger age if I had the resources at that time), but I do agree that the many steps that we are required to go through ARE necessary. Transitioning is a major step in your life, if you plan to do it. Besides the medical aspects, there is the social aspect to it as well. By going through these steps, one can think clearly if it's the right thing for them, because turning back is very difficult, if at all possible.

Speaking from my personal experience, I could have gotten a prescription for T right away when I first talked to my endo (this guy has been taking care of my health for years) about my desire to transition. (He said hat he could prescribe T for me if I wanted). But I didn't ask him to write me the prescription for T right away. Instead I wanted to go through the many steps that is required "by the books".

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

-Adam.

[twitch211]

Hmm, yes, and yes, and yes. I couldn't have said it better.

"If there is a true gender-queer movement that has a true political agenda about eliminating the boxes, wouldn't it follow that these people would NOT transition?"

I really want to understand this. I thought genderqueer meant that you don't ID as male or female, that you are somewhere in the middle between man and woman. That's fine, that's cool. But then why take steps so you'll look completely like a man to everyone? If you are GQ, wouldn't you be as upset with people calling you he than with calling you she? I would think, that although being read as female would suck because you aren't either, that it would be easier to not transition, since there are so many physical/emotional/financial costs to it.

And what is meant by "I'm more masculine than feminine, but I'm not a man or woman"? Well, doesn't this apply to butch lesbians? What is the difference between butch lesbians and non-transitioning, non-man/male identified masclinine people?

[ftmichael]

What is the difference between butch lesbians and non-transitioning, non-man/male-identified masculine people?

I think the difference is that lesbian = woman-loving-woman, and for those who don't ID as women, the word "lesbian" doesn't quite fit. (Exceptions, as always, apply.) There is masculine woman, and there is masculine not-woman person. Two different things.

[twitch211]

But what is the difference? How does one come to the conclusion that they are in fact, a masculine not-woman person, and not a masculine woman, like a butch lesbian? There's no physical difference, if the person doesn't transition. There's no real social difference (they often look the same and thus will get treated as such). Do they claim there's a physiological brain difference? If the answer is no to all of these, then isn't it just different labels for the same thing, like language differences, like the difference between "friend" and amigo"?

[zenchump]

you could say that about pre-everything transsexuals too, no? That if there's no difference that you can perceive there's no difference?

I think the difference is Gender Identity. The way we know what we are. The amorphous sense of male or female, or as has been more talked about, the sense of being neither or being something 'else.'

I agree it's hard to see any difference, but I've had close friends who live this difference, and since I'm not in their shoes I don't presume to erase their experience. I *do* think it has more to do with the social based *role dysphoria* that often comes with *body dysphoria* in the transsexual package.

[ftmichael]

3) If there is a true gender-queer movement that has a true political agenda about eliminating the boxes, wouldn't it follow that these people would NOT transition? I mean if all y'all are saying that gender is in the mind and has nothing to do with genitals, appearance, and so on, then wouldn't it follow that the strongest way to make that point would be from in the body you have?Not all genderqueer people are directly in the middle of the gender spectrum, just like not all bisexual people (indeed, very very few) have an exact 50/50 split of their attraction. I'm genderqueer and happily physically transitioning - on T for over three years, going for top surgery in two months, and saving my pennies for an eventual full hysto - and I don't see that as a contradiction at all. I'm genderqueer because I don't identify within the gender binary, as well as believing that the gender binary doesn't exist at all (not that I don't believe that all those who identify as men or women, or females or males, are kidding themselves - I just

[twitch211]

How can one have body dysphoria if there is no inherent gender? As a toddler think that you should have more male parts than female parts? If that doesn't come from some brain/body incongruence, where can it come from? I don't understand.

[usedtobeme]

as someone who is obsessed with language, i will say this...i grew up without any role dysphoria (until puberty) just body dysphoria. played with the boys, was considered a boy, etc...years later as a butch-ish dyke in a circle where roles are very male/female, again, i had no role dysphoria..i was always the guy, and seen as such where it mattered to me (in SF it is possible to never have to interact with the 'straight' world interpersonally.) so the fact that i finally altered my body to fit my vision did not necessarily change the way i was seen or saw myself. i've always wanted a flat chest, dick, and 'male' body...but my steps have been about my body, not what one would call that body.

[ftmichael]

Maybe it does come from some brain/body incongruence. I didn't say that it doesn't.

Plus, if there were no gender, who's to say that I would have had brain/body incongruence? It's interesting to argue about it, but the fact is that it's pretty much moot because we don't live in a genderless world and are not socialised without gender. Thus, body dysphoria may arise and there's no way of knowing whether it's really about social stuff or inherent biology. (As much as I love to talk in circles with people about gender theory, the fact is that I really don't care about the cause of my being Trans - I simply am, and I'm fine with that.)

yes

[anonymous]

In my neck of the woods more and more girls are deciding that being a lesbian just isnt cool anymore so now they say they are trans. it's the all the rage! its a fad. they think they can just cut their hair and change their name and BAM! they're a guy. it pisses me off.

Re: yes

[anonymous]

Isn't this a frightening kind of homophobia as well? I'm NOT a lesbian (the horror!), I'm really a guy!

While I do believe that there are people who have serious issues in relation to gender dysphoria, why is it that so much of the rhetoric of the FTM community is sexist ("these wretched female body parts") and homophobic ("I'm NOT a lesbian/dyke/etc.).

Re: yes

[trannylucas]

I don't see them as wretched female body parts in my GF, but they certainly are in mine. Not sure how that makes it sexist for god's sake. A person saying they are not this or that doesn't make them homophobic - just stating a fact.

Re: yes

[climanis]

Yeah. Look