Re: Reply Part 2foxie_trotJanuary 19 2010, 12:22:23 UTC
Morgana/Gwen - I missed their interactions. We know they care a lot about each other and they are friends not just mistress and servant.
I missed them so much this season too. I also feel that it would have been nice to see them drifting apart instead of them just suddenly ... apart.
However as a viewer I am guilty too in that my focus tends to be on the boys rather than the girls when I watch.
*is guilty of this also* >_>;;
Morgana seemed to cease being magical from the end of 2x03. That to me is the biggest problem with Merlin/Morgana working or not.This is true, and it raises the issue of where the hell did Morgana's powers go?!?! But you do have a point. I guess I just want an alternative reality where Merlin confessed his powers to Morgana, that Druid guy lived and Morgana then trained her powers through helping Merlin (and herself and Mordred) afterwards
( ... )
Re: Reply Part 2a8c_sockJanuary 19 2010, 19:12:21 UTC
I missed them so much this season too. I also feel that it would have been nice to see them drifting apart instead of them just suddenly ... apart.
Yes what on earth was with that? One minute they were BFF the next Morgana is snapping at Gwen.
This is true, and it raises the issue of where the hell did Morgana's powers go?!?!
The blackhole of good plotlines? Seriously I just wanted a hint somewhere in the other 10 episodes.
Now I think about it I wonder if it might not have been itneresting to have Morgause be a part of that. Subtly perhaps. But I guess she'll be schooling Morgana now...
Sadly we got something very far from this, but again, I think it has more to do with how this season was handled, rather than any single thing that could have been done to make it better.
*nods* Yes it was probaly due to a lot of different factors.
So killing him would give a nice thing called "motivation" that Morgana sort of seems to be lacking, for her level of intensity of hatred.Exactly. And it's not like they haven't killed off the
( ... )
Re: Reply Part 2foxie_trotJanuary 22 2010, 10:52:45 UTC
The blackhole of good plotlines? Seriously I just wanted a hint somewhere in the other 10 episodes.
I bloody reckon. It seems thats where all the good things have gone, including continuity. Why is it so impossible to hint at something throughout the remainder of the show? It doesn't have to detract from the main point either! Just five seconds, geez!
[Then again, this show doesn't do subtle. Ever.]
I guess then we wouldn;t have seen Morgana betray Camelot by helping Alvarr escape.
This is true. But you know what I would have liked best? Is if Morgana had helped him escape, but then he was killed just before he got out of Camelot. Because then that would have been extra great - we would have gotten her betraying the King, and then a complete motivation for her to want to kill him. Again.
And why the long imprisionment for Alvarr? Why not a simple execution immediately?
This show and it's non-logic. It doesn't like it when you think.
I see their relationship more like a sweet summer romance. Same. It's so cute, it would really
( ... )
Re: Reply Part 3foxie_trotJanuary 19 2010, 12:32:37 UTC
Uther shouting the truth during an argument with her would have made very good drama.
You know, I really thought that was how they were going to reveal it. Because you know, that's just about the most Merlinesque way I could think of.
As it is it will be up to Morgause to tell Morgana and Morgause has manipulated her a great deal so far already. Making Morgana a victim.
And this is so true. Now that Morgause will be the one to tell her, she will definitely use that knowledge to turn Morgana against Camelot. Which sort of cheapens it, almost, because it's far too easy. Hell, Morgana had just about been killed, she obviously is drawn to Morgause and Morgause is just using her for her own ends (even if she does seem to care a lot about her). It's victimising Morgana, but I would rather her be proactively evil than just passively manipulated.
[Morgana] can't believe that a magical person could actually be evil for the sake of it. This is a sad fact. And I guess it's how they will justify Morgana acting the way she will. I'll just
( ... )
Re: Reply Part 3a8c_sockJanuary 19 2010, 19:44:47 UTC
You know, I really thought that was how they were going to reveal it. Because you know, that's just about the most Merlinesque way I could think of.
I love the word Merlinesque. Hee. And yes that would be the sort of style they woukd do it in. A big dramatic epic music scene with shouting.
It's victimising Morgana, but I would rather her be proactively evil than just passively manipulated.
Yep. I want to see Morgana not be manipulated by someone - Morgause, Alvarr etc. I want her to see her options and decide in the end to go down the dark path. Because she feels that is what she wants to do. I know Katie in the Secrets and Magic episode following 2x12 talks about how Melrin and Morgana have gone down two seperate paths, that Morgana's magic has taken her somewhere Merlin's never would but I just never saw it. I was lft with Katie filling on the gaps for me. Morgana hasn't made a conscious choice to be evil really she's been manipulated into it.
This is a sad fact. And I guess it's how they will justify Morgana acting the way
( ... )
Re: Reply Part 3foxie_trotJanuary 22 2010, 14:00:38 UTC
Morgana hasn't made a conscious choice to be evil really she's been manipulated into it.
Yea, I get the feeling that Katie has had to either go to the producers or whatever to have them explain to her wtf is going on, or she has just sort of made up in her head a way to explain Morgana's actions, since it hasn't actually been seen yet. I mean, we can infer this sort of stuff, but we don't know whats going on in Morgana's head (though Katie says she can understand Morgana, I'm pretty sure she would have had to go to TPTB for a bit more of an explanation!)
But yea, I'd love to see Morgana turn evil next season. I want her to find out the truth, why Merlin tried to poison her, and for her to then decide to go off on her own and be evil with Mordred, against EVERYBODY (not just Camelot), because I really think that would be the best choice for her character. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Merlin is more turn off most of the brain viewing. It is a shame though that they don't fully realise the potential the show has. It
( ... )
Okay, I wrote my whole response on the earlier page, then came here to find a lot of the same things mentioned, haha!
First--the Vivian episode was supposed to be Shakespeare-inspired? Wow. Didn't get that at all.
Second--I wrote about this in my other comment a bit, but I think you're right about the Merlin/Freya stuff being much better worked out over two episodes. She had extremely little time to introduce herself as a character at all, much less someone so beguiling to Merlin. As well, you would think that the introduction of one of the main figures of legend would warrant at least the same amount of onscreen time as, you know, the troll stepmother.
Finally--I really hope that before too long, the showrunners will find that someone--hopefully Arthur, but Gwen would do as well--learning of Merlin's magic isn't a roadblock or a major issue in the storyline. In fact, it could hopefully add a new layer of depth to numerous relationships in the show. Fingers crossed.
Yes, the Vivian episode was meant to be a Merlin take on 'A Midsummer Nights Dream', which is where all the misunderstanding and romantic-comedy elements come into play.
As much as I found the Troll episodes amusing, if I had to chose between a two-parter with Freya and a two-parter with Catrina, I would take Freya, simply because she is much more important to the future plot.
I'm hoping that both Gwen and Arthur finds out about Merlin's magic next season. Even if they all just got suspicious, I would be ok with that. Fingers crossed!
Please stop forcing Arthur to act like a fourteen year old girl with a crush. It’s beyond sickening to watch.
Oh gods, this. In fact I'm not even aware of 14 years old acting like this... my cousin is that age and acts far more mature than they're making Arthur to be *shakes head*
About both ignoring Morgana; remember Merlin's joke comment about 'what's that [name of the baby rats animal they created, which was lame animal] eating? oh, it's nothing, just merlin'? Well that's what's happened to Morgana this season. =(
Gwen loves Lancelot and enjoys holding his hand be thankful they haven't made them skip hand in hand through a lovely spring!time meadow and all sorts of Disney animals singing in the background. Also it must be mentioned that when Arthur asks Lancelot what he is doing there, Lance says 'saving Gwen' ? No, dude, you were there making money. You're just hanging around to help her but the main reason you were there was not Gwen.
my cousin is that age and acts far more mature than they're making Arthur
I know, it's so painful. Sadly though, I know of 14 yr old's like this (I went to school with them), but it's even worse when you know people that act like that. You just sit there shaking your head and trying not to cringe with second hand embarrassment.
:( I feel like a Wildrin tried to eat Morgana too, with all the screen time she got this season.
be thankful they haven't made them skip hand in hand through a lovely spring!time meadow and all sorts of Disney animals singing in the background.
Oh my god, the horror. I hadn't thought of that. I swear to god I will curl up and die if they make them do something like this. But surely not even Capps could be THAT corny, surely?!?! *looks around fearfully*
But if you really look back to s1 it wasn't a brilliantI know love, but as you said, you forgive it because it was the first season, and they were just finding their feet. So one would assume that they would have gotten
( ... )
Oh my god, the horror. I hadn't thought of that. I swear to god I will curl up and die if they make them do something like this. But surely not even Capps could be THAT corny, surely?!?! *looks around fearfully*
didn't Capps also say something about SLOW build up? But worry not, it probably won't happen due to copyright issues ;)
I wish that they could bring in a fan into the writing team - not necessarily to write, but to give them honest feedback on the ideas that they come up with, and make sure they stay on track and focus on what is actually important to the show, instead of just trying to get the best ratings.That I agree with. Just let's make sure it's someone who can see more than one pairing or we would be completely doomed if they just wanted to push their pairing of choice everywhere without sense. The thing is, that better writting can only mean better ratings, seriously. Well, if done right. But take it like this how good are most bestsellers? How much better are those bestsellers that the critics also like? They're
( ... )
didn't Capps also say something about SLOW build up? But worry not, it probably won't happen due to copyright issues ;)
Lol yea, he did. But I somehow think he has a warped sense of reality, compared to the rest of us. (and I really am glad they can't do that due to copyright. Or I think everyone would just run away screaming in the opposite direction)
The thing is, that better writting can only mean better ratings, seriously.This is so true. And I will be curious to see how the bad writing of this season affects it's ratings overseas (because it was already down by about a million in the UK each week, so I wouldn't be surprised if it drops off around the world also). It's not like it's a pretty difficult thing to understand either - people generally want something that's entertaining but NOT completely stupid or treating you like you're a moron. A fan of the show would know exactly where to spot that condescending habit they have and kill it straight away. I think even if they did get some of the more mature OT4 fangirls in, they
( ... )
Sorry, while I agree with the lack of Morgana (and mischaracterization) in your long list, I don't agree with most of it. I thought the Arthur/Gwen romance had just the right amount of interactions and at the right time. It was sweet and first-crush adorable.
I saw Arthur/Merlin's interactions (except S02.01 which I refuse to admit exists) as appropriate. Arthur is very confused as to how to handle Merlin since he's obviously let him into his confidence and his heart (as a friend) and he's not one to deal with emotions very well. So by berating him, he pushes him away and reminds him of his place and yet other times he's worried about Merlin enough to unbend.
I really loved the second season, much more than the first. *shrugs* If I were to list the episodes that I liked of the seasons, I'd list almost all of the second and a few of the first. Ah well.
I totally understand that you think differently. And it's not like I hate the second season, there are many times that I love. But these were just some things that have niggled at me for awhile, and it's certainly not helped when I would go to other people's review posts and discuss it.
I like your theory on Arthur pushing Merlin away though. I guess I can see it. I suppose my shipper self just doesn't want to admit it. ^^;
Oh, I also agree about Bradley and his shirtlessness. I think there was one or two points where it was appropriate (ep 10 when he's changing and the Freya one where he's about to take a bath) and that was about it.
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I missed them so much this season too. I also feel that it would have been nice to see them drifting apart instead of them just suddenly ... apart.
However as a viewer I am guilty too in that my focus tends to be on the boys rather than the girls when I watch.
*is guilty of this also* >_>;;
Morgana seemed to cease being magical from the end of 2x03. That to me is the biggest problem with Merlin/Morgana working or not.This is true, and it raises the issue of where the hell did Morgana's powers go?!?! But you do have a point. I guess I just want an alternative reality where Merlin confessed his powers to Morgana, that Druid guy lived and Morgana then trained her powers through helping Merlin (and herself and Mordred) afterwards ( ... )
Reply
Yes what on earth was with that? One minute they were BFF the next Morgana is snapping at Gwen.
This is true, and it raises the issue of where the hell did Morgana's powers go?!?!
The blackhole of good plotlines? Seriously I just wanted a hint somewhere in the other 10 episodes.
Now I think about it I wonder if it might not have been itneresting to have Morgause be a part of that. Subtly perhaps. But I guess she'll be schooling Morgana now...
Sadly we got something very far from this, but again, I think it has more to do with how this season was handled, rather than any single thing that could have been done to make it better.
*nods* Yes it was probaly due to a lot of different factors.
So killing him would give a nice thing called "motivation" that Morgana sort of seems to be lacking, for her level of intensity of hatred.Exactly. And it's not like they haven't killed off the ( ... )
Reply
I bloody reckon. It seems thats where all the good things have gone, including continuity. Why is it so impossible to hint at something throughout the remainder of the show? It doesn't have to detract from the main point either! Just five seconds, geez!
[Then again, this show doesn't do subtle. Ever.]
I guess then we wouldn;t have seen Morgana betray Camelot by helping Alvarr escape.
This is true. But you know what I would have liked best? Is if Morgana had helped him escape, but then he was killed just before he got out of Camelot. Because then that would have been extra great - we would have gotten her betraying the King, and then a complete motivation for her to want to kill him. Again.
And why the long imprisionment for Alvarr? Why not a simple execution immediately?
This show and it's non-logic. It doesn't like it when you think.
I see their relationship more like a sweet summer romance. Same. It's so cute, it would really ( ... )
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You know, I really thought that was how they were going to reveal it. Because you know, that's just about the most Merlinesque way I could think of.
As it is it will be up to Morgause to tell Morgana and Morgause has manipulated her a great deal so far already. Making Morgana a victim.
And this is so true. Now that Morgause will be the one to tell her, she will definitely use that knowledge to turn Morgana against Camelot. Which sort of cheapens it, almost, because it's far too easy. Hell, Morgana had just about been killed, she obviously is drawn to Morgause and Morgause is just using her for her own ends (even if she does seem to care a lot about her). It's victimising Morgana, but I would rather her be proactively evil than just passively manipulated.
[Morgana] can't believe that a magical person could actually be evil for the sake of it. This is a sad fact. And I guess it's how they will justify Morgana acting the way she will. I'll just ( ... )
Reply
I love the word Merlinesque. Hee. And yes that would be the sort of style they woukd do it in. A big dramatic epic music scene with shouting.
It's victimising Morgana, but I would rather her be proactively evil than just passively manipulated.
Yep. I want to see Morgana not be manipulated by someone - Morgause, Alvarr etc. I want her to see her options and decide in the end to go down the dark path. Because she feels that is what she wants to do. I know Katie in the Secrets and Magic episode following 2x12 talks about how Melrin and Morgana have gone down two seperate paths, that Morgana's magic has taken her somewhere Merlin's never would but I just never saw it. I was lft with Katie filling on the gaps for me. Morgana hasn't made a conscious choice to be evil really she's been manipulated into it.
This is a sad fact. And I guess it's how they will justify Morgana acting the way ( ... )
Reply
Yea, I get the feeling that Katie has had to either go to the producers or whatever to have them explain to her wtf is going on, or she has just sort of made up in her head a way to explain Morgana's actions, since it hasn't actually been seen yet. I mean, we can infer this sort of stuff, but we don't know whats going on in Morgana's head (though Katie says she can understand Morgana, I'm pretty sure she would have had to go to TPTB for a bit more of an explanation!)
But yea, I'd love to see Morgana turn evil next season. I want her to find out the truth, why Merlin tried to poison her, and for her to then decide to go off on her own and be evil with Mordred, against EVERYBODY (not just Camelot), because I really think that would be the best choice for her character. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Merlin is more turn off most of the brain viewing. It is a shame though that they don't fully realise the potential the show has. It ( ... )
Reply
First--the Vivian episode was supposed to be Shakespeare-inspired? Wow. Didn't get that at all.
Second--I wrote about this in my other comment a bit, but I think you're right about the Merlin/Freya stuff being much better worked out over two episodes. She had extremely little time to introduce herself as a character at all, much less someone so beguiling to Merlin. As well, you would think that the introduction of one of the main figures of legend would warrant at least the same amount of onscreen time as, you know, the troll stepmother.
Finally--I really hope that before too long, the showrunners will find that someone--hopefully Arthur, but Gwen would do as well--learning of Merlin's magic isn't a roadblock or a major issue in the storyline. In fact, it could hopefully add a new layer of depth to numerous relationships in the show. Fingers crossed.
Reply
As much as I found the Troll episodes amusing, if I had to chose between a two-parter with Freya and a two-parter with Catrina, I would take Freya, simply because she is much more important to the future plot.
I'm hoping that both Gwen and Arthur finds out about Merlin's magic next season. Even if they all just got suspicious, I would be ok with that. Fingers crossed!
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Please stop forcing Arthur to act like a fourteen year old girl with a crush. It’s beyond sickening to watch.
Oh gods, this. In fact I'm not even aware of 14 years old acting like this... my cousin is that age and acts far more mature than they're making Arthur to be *shakes head*
About both ignoring Morgana; remember Merlin's joke comment about 'what's that [name of the baby rats animal they created, which was lame animal] eating? oh, it's nothing, just merlin'? Well that's what's happened to Morgana this season. =(
Gwen loves Lancelot and enjoys holding his hand
be thankful they haven't made them skip hand in hand through a lovely spring!time meadow and all sorts of Disney animals singing in the background.
Also it must be mentioned that when Arthur asks Lancelot what he is doing there, Lance says 'saving Gwen' ? No, dude, you were there making money. You're just hanging around to help her but the main reason you were there was not Gwen.
agree, agree, agree... ad infinitum.
This is why I don’t think about ( ... )
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my cousin is that age and acts far more mature than they're making Arthur
I know, it's so painful. Sadly though, I know of 14 yr old's like this (I went to school with them), but it's even worse when you know people that act like that. You just sit there shaking your head and trying not to cringe with second hand embarrassment.
:( I feel like a Wildrin tried to eat Morgana too, with all the screen time she got this season.
be thankful they haven't made them skip hand in hand through a lovely spring!time meadow and all sorts of Disney animals singing in the background.
Oh my god, the horror. I hadn't thought of that. I swear to god I will curl up and die if they make them do something like this. But surely not even Capps could be THAT corny, surely?!?! *looks around fearfully*
But if you really look back to s1 it wasn't a brilliantI know love, but as you said, you forgive it because it was the first season, and they were just finding their feet. So one would assume that they would have gotten ( ... )
Reply
didn't Capps also say something about SLOW build up? But worry not, it probably won't happen due to copyright issues ;)
I wish that they could bring in a fan into the writing team - not necessarily to write, but to give them honest feedback on the ideas that they come up with, and make sure they stay on track and focus on what is actually important to the show, instead of just trying to get the best ratings.That I agree with. Just let's make sure it's someone who can see more than one pairing or we would be completely doomed if they just wanted to push their pairing of choice everywhere without sense. The thing is, that better writting can only mean better ratings, seriously. Well, if done right. But take it like this how good are most bestsellers? How much better are those bestsellers that the critics also like? They're ( ... )
Reply
Lol yea, he did. But I somehow think he has a warped sense of reality, compared to the rest of us.
(and I really am glad they can't do that due to copyright. Or I think everyone would just run away screaming in the opposite direction)
The thing is, that better writting can only mean better ratings, seriously.This is so true. And I will be curious to see how the bad writing of this season affects it's ratings overseas (because it was already down by about a million in the UK each week, so I wouldn't be surprised if it drops off around the world also). It's not like it's a pretty difficult thing to understand either - people generally want something that's entertaining but NOT completely stupid or treating you like you're a moron. A fan of the show would know exactly where to spot that condescending habit they have and kill it straight away. I think even if they did get some of the more mature OT4 fangirls in, they ( ... )
Reply
I saw Arthur/Merlin's interactions (except S02.01 which I refuse to admit exists) as appropriate. Arthur is very confused as to how to handle Merlin since he's obviously let him into his confidence and his heart (as a friend) and he's not one to deal with emotions very well. So by berating him, he pushes him away and reminds him of his place and yet other times he's worried about Merlin enough to unbend.
I really loved the second season, much more than the first. *shrugs* If I were to list the episodes that I liked of the seasons, I'd list almost all of the second and a few of the first. Ah well.
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I like your theory on Arthur pushing Merlin away though. I guess I can see it. I suppose my shipper self just doesn't want to admit it. ^^;
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