This is just a suggestion but... If we do end up going to single-class teams (no alliances), then why not just do some sort of averaging? I know some of the teams have an abundance of members, while some of the teams have... very few. This may rile up the "oh that's not fair" card, but um. If you average out points with the amount of members, wouldn't that be, in the long run, more fair? . . .I hope this makes sense in some way xD
That idea gets brought up every so often in westerosorting and I generally agree with their decision not to handle points that way. The main reason being, I feel it would pressure people to either do their share or quit the game entirely so that they don't drag down their team. I want more of a laidback system where people can be inactive pointswise as long as they're enjoying the comm in other ways.
So basically, I would rather have alliances than to do point-scaling by team size, if that makes sense.
That makes sense. Do you think it would work for, say, only a few challenges then? I know that hogwartsishome (where I got the idea from) did a random challenge for our equivalent of the Garden Festival (Hogsmeade Weekend!) and one of the challenges was averaged as such. So, if not for every challenge, then maybe a few challenges?
And to specify, the challenge that did the averaging only did the average of how many people participated in that particular challenge, not necessary the House (Team) total amount of people.
Hm... can you explain in more detail how the averaging worked for Hogsmeade Weekend? Let's say 5 Ravenclaws, 10 Slytherins, 10 Gryffindors, and 15 Hufflepuffs participated in a certain activity. The Hufflepuff scores would be scaled down the most, the Gryffindors & Slytherins would get scaled down but not as much, and the Ravenclaws would be affected the least?
Personally, I like the idea of a Soldier and Dragoon reworking...since those seem to be the two teams that have kind of a hard time getting defined in terms of characters: for Dragoons the character pool is always very limited (and often gets equated with more popular characters like Kain who aren't necessarily the best overall representation of the class) and for Soldiers, it is almost the opposite and there's *too* wide of a definition...often enough, I see a lot of "I can see you in both Dragoon and Soldier" when people are getting votes for one or the other, so having a more defined character list would probably work well for both teams
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I think you have a good point. Expanding Soldier & Dragoon into the Samurai/Knight/Paladin space is a good idea but it has to be handled carefully because there's already a lot of confusion/conflation going on with those two classes and, unless we're VERY clear on who goes into what class, it will just get worse
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Beatrix is an interesting mixture of those two. Her personality is certainly more Dragoon, but at the same time, she is heavily military-minded, since she's the General of all of Alexandria's forces. It could be argued that she's that way because of her devotion to her queen and country, which then switches to devotion to Garnet in the latter half of the game.
I really don't know what to do with the Paladins, honestly. Cecil is a good fit for Soldier because his Dark Knight/Paladin sides cancel each other out, I think, but Agrias and Beatrix are a LOT more hazy.
Basch I would put with Dragoons, I think, because he has the personality and the devotion to one person/cause (Ashe, then Larsa).
I agree! ♥ There's a lot of confusion with the two classes already, and that's my reasoning for bringing this up at all (so I apologize if I'm adding to it!)...because I fear adding Dragoon + Knight/Samurai might make the definition for Soldier hazy if there's not something else helping to define that team as well.
Personally, I see Agrias and Basch as kind of fitting more for the Dragoon + Knight category, even just in terms of their abilities in Tactics and RW respectively. They don't have nearly the same amount of healing or protective abilities like Cover that other Paladins such as Cecil, Beatrix, and Frimelda have...and I definitely see their personalities fitting more for the definition that you gave for Dragoons overall. While they're technically in military organizations, Basch tends to be more dedicated to one leader or cause (Ashe, and later Larsa) and Agrias is overall more loyal to Ovelia (even her reasoning for joining with Ramza's group is because she feels it is in Ovelia's best interest given what happens in the
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Just out of curiosity, how many members do each class have? This is an non-stats valid observation, within my own Soldier community I think Breyzy is essentially the one person holding the entire place up. That includes myself who occasionally bounces off the internet weeks at a time too. I wonder if it's pretty much the same situation with every group
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I think that, instead of looking at the teams as a whole, we also need to look at the active members for each team as a truer indicators of actual level. If you take a member out, how well does that team stand up?
The Game 2 gil spreadsheet gives a pretty good indication of how many active members each team had last game. The Soldier team does have the smallest number of highly active members so the thing you're observing is the most accented in the Soldier comm, but generally it IS true for most teams that a single highly active person accounts for a significant portion of the points. It's just that most other teams have 2-3 members like this.
Maybe just have Rational/Thinking vs. Emotional/Feeling? Would that work better?
About UA, that's interesting... When I made this comm, I wanted there to be five activity types (sorting, contests, minigames, fanworks, and social), not really equal in terms of points but equal in terms of status as centers of different types of activities. I think in a larger comm with more members, more points would actually be earned in FFMG rather than UA, but we're kind of tiny so that hasn't really happened.
I like thinking vs feeling better, because "rational" don't seem like a very neutral description imo?
The Gil sheet is very telling indeed. Yes, we are held together by the Breyzy!
Now looking at the five comms, I've made a friends filter for that. Hopefully I'll check it more often and actually start to participate in how I should!
Sorry to be brief, but I'm pretty much okay with everything here except perfect sorting bonuses, which sounds like it's a lot of work, but if people in charge are okay with that, then that's fine xD
Okay, long comment about perfect sorting bonuses here:
#1: Voting on 'all the applications' is perfectly possible for our current members, since we get the chance to vote on all of them from the start. What about new members, though? We only open applications once game starts and people join all game round, so those who join later are simply not going to have the opportunity to vote on all the applications, which makes giving a perfect sorting bonus for all applications kind of unfair
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but that might end up being unfair to the older members since someone who joins midway through might only have to vote on 10 applications, compared to the 20 an older member might have to vote on to qualify.
Yeah I thought about this but I figured that giving a new person a break on their first game might actually be a good thing, since they're a newbie and the lower difficulty only applies to their first game -- the next game they would be on the same playing ground as everyone else. On their first game it would be easier to earn the bonus but they get less points for it. An older member would have more work cut out for them but for a larger bonus at the end.
I'm okay with lowering the percentage, if you like.
Yeah, I thought that too, but then it occurred to me that the newbie would be getting 125 points to the older member's 100 points, which is a significant difference (assuming 25%.)
Anyway - I'm not sure about what percentage to drop it to; I copypasted this at Vanja since she's classchange mod and I think she wants to check some stuff first before implementing anything? Not sure. Besides, I think there's no way of working out how many new members we might get next game, since ff_press is on indefinite hiatus and that was one of our main ways of promoting...
But still, all older members in that case would have the opportunity to sort 20 apps = 250 points total. It's a perfect sorting bonus because it's rewarding dedication to sorting all apps, not just half...
Edit: and again, this bonus of being able to get 125 points for sorting 10 apps where a normal member would get only 100 only applies to their first game. So only people who are really into app-sorting straight off the bat would get this, and only once. I do agree that the points might be a bit high in general. I would be willing to bump it down to 20% but 10% strikes me as really low (a 20-app game would only get you 20 points at the end...) and anywhere between 10 and 20 seems random and hard to mentally check.
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So basically, I would rather have alliances than to do point-scaling by team size, if that makes sense.
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And to specify, the challenge that did the averaging only did the average of how many people participated in that particular challenge, not necessary the House (Team) total amount of people.
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I really don't know what to do with the Paladins, honestly. Cecil is a good fit for Soldier because his Dark Knight/Paladin sides cancel each other out, I think, but Agrias and Beatrix are a LOT more hazy.
Basch I would put with Dragoons, I think, because he has the personality and the devotion to one person/cause (Ashe, then Larsa).
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Personally, I see Agrias and Basch as kind of fitting more for the Dragoon + Knight category, even just in terms of their abilities in Tactics and RW respectively. They don't have nearly the same amount of healing or protective abilities like Cover that other Paladins such as Cecil, Beatrix, and Frimelda have...and I definitely see their personalities fitting more for the definition that you gave for Dragoons overall. While they're technically in military organizations, Basch tends to be more dedicated to one leader or cause (Ashe, and later Larsa) and Agrias is overall more loyal to Ovelia (even her reasoning for joining with Ramza's group is because she feels it is in Ovelia's best interest given what happens in the ( ... )
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Maybe just have Rational/Thinking vs. Emotional/Feeling? Would that work better?
About UA, that's interesting... When I made this comm, I wanted there to be five activity types (sorting, contests, minigames, fanworks, and social), not really equal in terms of points but equal in terms of status as centers of different types of activities. I think in a larger comm with more members, more points would actually be earned in FFMG rather than UA, but we're kind of tiny so that hasn't really happened.
Thanks for the feedback/thoughts. :)
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The Gil sheet is very telling indeed. Yes, we are held together by the Breyzy!
Now looking at the five comms, I've made a friends filter for that. Hopefully I'll check it more often and actually start to participate in how I should!
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#1: Voting on 'all the applications' is perfectly possible for our current members, since we get the chance to vote on all of them from the start. What about new members, though? We only open applications once game starts and people join all game round, so those who join later are simply not going to have the opportunity to vote on all the applications, which makes giving a perfect sorting bonus for all applications kind of unfair ( ... )
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Yeah I thought about this but I figured that giving a new person a break on their first game might actually be a good thing, since they're a newbie and the lower difficulty only applies to their first game -- the next game they would be on the same playing ground as everyone else. On their first game it would be easier to earn the bonus but they get less points for it. An older member would have more work cut out for them but for a larger bonus at the end.
I'm okay with lowering the percentage, if you like.
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Anyway - I'm not sure about what percentage to drop it to; I copypasted this at Vanja since she's classchange mod and I think she wants to check some stuff first before implementing anything? Not sure. Besides, I think there's no way of working out how many new members we might get next game, since ff_press is on indefinite hiatus and that was one of our main ways of promoting...
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Edit: and again, this bonus of being able to get 125 points for sorting 10 apps where a normal member would get only 100 only applies to their first game. So only people who are really into app-sorting straight off the bat would get this, and only once. I do agree that the points might be a bit high in general. I would be willing to bump it down to 20% but 10% strikes me as really low (a 20-app game would only get you 20 points at the end...) and anywhere between 10 and 20 seems random and hard to mentally check.
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