Okay, long comment about perfect sorting bonuses here:
#1: Voting on 'all the applications' is perfectly possible for our current members, since we get the chance to vote on all of them from the start. What about new members, though? We only open applications once game starts and people join all game round, so those who join later are simply not going to have the opportunity to vote on all the applications, which makes giving a perfect sorting bonus for all applications kind of unfair.
We could solve this by saying that we count 100% as 'all applications since the new member joined', but that might end up being unfair to the older members since someone who joins midway through might only have to vote on 10 applications, compared to the 20 an older member might have to vote on to qualify.
25% also seems a bit much to me? I know some people think 10 points is a bit underpowered especially considering it's difficult to decide, but even a new member who only has to vote on 10 applications would get an extra 25 points out of it. Older members will get more - and that can total up to a few hundred for alliances.
but that might end up being unfair to the older members since someone who joins midway through might only have to vote on 10 applications, compared to the 20 an older member might have to vote on to qualify.
Yeah I thought about this but I figured that giving a new person a break on their first game might actually be a good thing, since they're a newbie and the lower difficulty only applies to their first game -- the next game they would be on the same playing ground as everyone else. On their first game it would be easier to earn the bonus but they get less points for it. An older member would have more work cut out for them but for a larger bonus at the end.
I'm okay with lowering the percentage, if you like.
Yeah, I thought that too, but then it occurred to me that the newbie would be getting 125 points to the older member's 100 points, which is a significant difference (assuming 25%.)
Anyway - I'm not sure about what percentage to drop it to; I copypasted this at Vanja since she's classchange mod and I think she wants to check some stuff first before implementing anything? Not sure. Besides, I think there's no way of working out how many new members we might get next game, since ff_press is on indefinite hiatus and that was one of our main ways of promoting...
But still, all older members in that case would have the opportunity to sort 20 apps = 250 points total. It's a perfect sorting bonus because it's rewarding dedication to sorting all apps, not just half...
Edit: and again, this bonus of being able to get 125 points for sorting 10 apps where a normal member would get only 100 only applies to their first game. So only people who are really into app-sorting straight off the bat would get this, and only once. I do agree that the points might be a bit high in general. I would be willing to bump it down to 20% but 10% strikes me as really low (a 20-app game would only get you 20 points at the end...) and anywhere between 10 and 20 seems random and hard to mentally check.
Yeah, I do see your point. I'm not against sorting bonuses per se; what I'm worried about is this: I feel it's good to reward dedication, and certainly older members who sort 20+ apps should be rewarded more than a newbie who sorted 10+ apps. And I do think that if there's a reward it should be for all apps and not, as you said, just half - since I personally find it a time-consuming and rather draining process.
The thing is this, for me: we reward people for voting, regardless of the length of their vote. It doesn't matter if they write two paragraphs or two lines, they're going to get the 10 points and 100 gil anyway. I suppose my main concern is that if the bonus is too high, we're opening the system to a great deal of abuse and/or unintentionally breaking it. That being said, we do run very much on a trust system when it comes to a lot of things, and I do believe that anyone and everyone who's voted does put time and effort into their vote, so - should this go through, since it's currently up in the air right now - I won't actually have major objections.
(I swear I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing or something (since I just said I wouldn't object), because I actually do agree with you on most counts; these were mostly my concerns with the sorting bonus since I feel members should be rewarded for effort and sorting does take time, but I don't want to accidentally open a system to abuse since we'll have to wait one whole game to stop up the gap regardless of how early in the game we find it. So, uh, I'd rather express them now. I hope that makes sense?)
Yeah I can see how this would up the motivation to just put down SOMETHING/BS a vote even if you can't decide. But like you said, we already give people 10 points for voting on one app, so there's already that much motivation there, available immediately if someone really wants to just sheep or write nonsense for points. I can see that this bonus might make someone who normally refrains from voting when they're unsure vote anyway because they're going for the bonus but I really don't see this causing a person who is at this moment too lazy to vote properly to suddenly start making bad votes just to get the bonus at the end of the game?
Oh, and er - unrelated to classchange, but related to admin: I think the change in poetry scale is going through, yes? But I can't edit the point system post because you made it... would you like to edit it, or should I start a new one so I can edit any future changes in?
I can edit it this weekend (traveling at the moment).
Edit: actually, a mixture of both -- I edited it just now but maybe you should post a new one whenever you feel would be good. If you want the code for the old posts, I added them at the bottom of here and here
This may not be the most coherent post as I meant to reply here when I was more awake (I got two hours of sleep last night and have been averaging 4 all week, so... yeah. D:), but since the topic was is being discussed now: I came up with several alternatives while crunching numbers earlier:
1. If less than 10 (perhaps lower it to 5) applications are released and/or the member is new and has sorted all applications since their joining (which equals out to less than 10), they get a 15% bonus rather than 25. This is still a +15 bonus if they sort 10 applications, equivalent to some of the smaller submissions in the other applications. All applications beyond 10 get the 25% bonus.
--> On the topic of new members, would the counting start only after they're officially sorted or the moment they release their application, since they can also vote on applications before joining?
2.Don't go by % or "voting on all applications" but award a fixed amount per number voted on. (An extra 20 if you vote on 10, +50 if you vote on 20-- which stacks with the previous 20... The first one is slightly less than with the 25% method yet slightly more than #1 (+/- 5), but it gives room in case someone missed just one or decided to no vote someone that others voted in. Alternatively, it could just be "a bonus 20 every 10 applications," since 20 is the normal amount given per one application vote...
3. I uh... damnit. I had another idea earlier, but now I can't remember what it was. D: I'll, er, come back when my brain is actually working.
[Edit: ... and I remembered just after submitting it! Since it's no longer part of the Golden Chocobo Awards, perhaps have a poll at the end for the best voters (among those who voted at least 75% of the time?), and the 3 (maybe 4?) winners of that poll just be given bonuses. It'll eliminate the concern about people spamming votes that are just a couple of sentences along for more points.]
I don't really have a problem with the 25% method (unless we end up having a ton of applications, which seems unlikely... or someone only votes on a few applications because they joined late, as that would give them an usually high bonus for that), but since that one is only slightly above 50%, I thought I'd offer some alternatives.
(I don't really have a problem with any number between 10 and 20... XD It can be changed if someone else helps, though.)
1. I'm okay with this but I think making a special case is unnecessary for the reason I said above i.e. it's only a one-time thing and since they're a newbie I figure we should just give it to them.
I was thinking that the record would start only after the person is officially sorted and made a member, so they'd only need to sort people in the batch AFTER theirs and onward, but that if they sort apps prior to their becoming a member (e.g. in their application's batch) those would count toward the total that the bonus gets applied to.
2. Wouldn't really like this option as much because it removes the element of accomplishment/perfectionism.
3. I wouldn't like this either because this means some people's hard work goes unrecognized.
#1: Voting on 'all the applications' is perfectly possible for our current members, since we get the chance to vote on all of them from the start. What about new members, though? We only open applications once game starts and people join all game round, so those who join later are simply not going to have the opportunity to vote on all the applications, which makes giving a perfect sorting bonus for all applications kind of unfair.
We could solve this by saying that we count 100% as 'all applications since the new member joined', but that might end up being unfair to the older members since someone who joins midway through might only have to vote on 10 applications, compared to the 20 an older member might have to vote on to qualify.
25% also seems a bit much to me? I know some people think 10 points is a bit underpowered especially considering it's difficult to decide, but even a new member who only has to vote on 10 applications would get an extra 25 points out of it. Older members will get more - and that can total up to a few hundred for alliances.
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Yeah I thought about this but I figured that giving a new person a break on their first game might actually be a good thing, since they're a newbie and the lower difficulty only applies to their first game -- the next game they would be on the same playing ground as everyone else. On their first game it would be easier to earn the bonus but they get less points for it. An older member would have more work cut out for them but for a larger bonus at the end.
I'm okay with lowering the percentage, if you like.
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Anyway - I'm not sure about what percentage to drop it to; I copypasted this at Vanja since she's classchange mod and I think she wants to check some stuff first before implementing anything? Not sure. Besides, I think there's no way of working out how many new members we might get next game, since ff_press is on indefinite hiatus and that was one of our main ways of promoting...
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Edit: and again, this bonus of being able to get 125 points for sorting 10 apps where a normal member would get only 100 only applies to their first game. So only people who are really into app-sorting straight off the bat would get this, and only once. I do agree that the points might be a bit high in general. I would be willing to bump it down to 20% but 10% strikes me as really low (a 20-app game would only get you 20 points at the end...) and anywhere between 10 and 20 seems random and hard to mentally check.
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The thing is this, for me: we reward people for voting, regardless of the length of their vote. It doesn't matter if they write two paragraphs or two lines, they're going to get the 10 points and 100 gil anyway. I suppose my main concern is that if the bonus is too high, we're opening the system to a great deal of abuse and/or unintentionally breaking it. That being said, we do run very much on a trust system when it comes to a lot of things, and I do believe that anyone and everyone who's voted does put time and effort into their vote, so - should this go through, since it's currently up in the air right now - I won't actually have major objections.
(I swear I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing or something (since I just said I wouldn't object), because I actually do agree with you on most counts; these were mostly my concerns with the sorting bonus since I feel members should be rewarded for effort and sorting does take time, but I don't want to accidentally open a system to abuse since we'll have to wait one whole game to stop up the gap regardless of how early in the game we find it. So, uh, I'd rather express them now. I hope that makes sense?)
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Edit: actually, a mixture of both -- I edited it just now but maybe you should post a new one whenever you feel would be good. If you want the code for the old posts, I added them at the bottom of here and here
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1. If less than 10 (perhaps lower it to 5) applications are released and/or the member is new and has sorted all applications since their joining (which equals out to less than 10), they get a 15% bonus rather than 25. This is still a +15 bonus if they sort 10 applications, equivalent to some of the smaller submissions in the other applications. All applications beyond 10 get the 25% bonus.
--> On the topic of new members, would the counting start only after they're officially sorted or the moment they release their application, since they can also vote on applications before joining?
2.Don't go by % or "voting on all applications" but award a fixed amount per number voted on. (An extra 20 if you vote on 10, +50 if you vote on 20-- which stacks with the previous 20... The first one is slightly less than with the 25% method yet slightly more than #1 (+/- 5), but it gives room in case someone missed just one or decided to no vote someone that others voted in. Alternatively, it could just be "a bonus 20 every 10 applications," since 20 is the normal amount given per one application vote...
3. I uh... damnit. I had another idea earlier, but now I can't remember what it was. D: I'll, er, come back when my brain is actually working.
[Edit: ... and I remembered just after submitting it! Since it's no longer part of the Golden Chocobo Awards, perhaps have a poll at the end for the best voters (among those who voted at least 75% of the time?), and the 3 (maybe 4?) winners of that poll just be given bonuses. It'll eliminate the concern about people spamming votes that are just a couple of sentences along for more points.]
I don't really have a problem with the 25% method (unless we end up having a ton of applications, which seems unlikely... or someone only votes on a few applications because they joined late, as that would give them an usually high bonus for that), but since that one is only slightly above 50%, I thought I'd offer some alternatives.
(I don't really have a problem with any number between 10 and 20... XD It can be changed if someone else helps, though.)
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I was thinking that the record would start only after the person is officially sorted and made a member, so they'd only need to sort people in the batch AFTER theirs and onward, but that if they sort apps prior to their becoming a member (e.g. in their application's batch) those would count toward the total that the bonus gets applied to.
2. Wouldn't really like this option as much because it removes the element of accomplishment/perfectionism.
3. I wouldn't like this either because this means some people's hard work goes unrecognized.
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