So. We've been discussing character death to exhaustion since CoE aired. Was it good, was it horrible, was it necessary, was it satisfactory, and so on
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And, okay, this is totally spoilery but the movie's amazing anyway and everyone should see it. Life is Beautiful (La Vita e Bella). Has the best death ever.
The West Wing, the death of the secretary at the end of season two. That was done extremely well. Tragic and nonsensical, just like RL.
Also, and call me weird for this if you must, but the sister's death in The Bodyguard. I loved that film, and all its quirky characters, and both her death scene and the fall out from it are utterly fabulous.
Lastly, Third Watch, and the ep "After Hours". There're only dead guest stars, but it's an amazing ep.
Haha! xD I won't call you weird, I like some movies people would classify as weird too (Alexander, shhh). I don't really remember the movie, though. Been a while since I last watched it.
You didn't like Ianto's death, right? But what didn't you like about it: the way it was done, or the fact it happened at all?
No, I didn't like Ianto's death. Part of that was that I didn't like Ianto dying, period. And a large part of it was also the press campaign before hand. As for the actual death scene: it was confusing, and slow, and badly delivered. It felt wrong to me, and not at all dramatic. A good death scene has to have either a sense of drama (re. The Bodyguard) or a sense of utter, bewildering surprise (re. Third Watch, The West Wing). And there has to be a sense of justice in it, a sense that this is it for that person, but okay, they did good. Ianto didn't get that. He got, "but wait, what about me? *cough* Jack? Do you love me?" and then he died.
I understand what you mean. I didn't have a problem with the scene per se, but even though I found it to be good (however not great), I wasn't exactly touched by it. I cried when the old guy died, when Frobisher died, but not when my favorite character did. I was just telling be_a_rebel how, to me, it felt like there was something missing. Ianto was just... It didn't feel like his arc was complete. It didn't feel like it was his moment. There were too many things left untold, unexplained, and under-explored about him.
Owen's death was perfect, to me. It was a good scene, it gave the character a sense of completeness, like his story had been told. Didn't feel that way about Tosh, though. I think her death was rather pointless, too. It gave more drama to the series' ending, and to the whole scene, but yeah, it could've been pretty dramatic without her dying.
I think someone above me mentioned some of the deaths in Buffy and I agree there.
The episode about Joyce's death......it was unbelievable. I was always one of those people who watched the show for fun rather than because they were a fan but still, that episode stands out in my memory as the most well done death I've seen on tv. No melodrama, no saving the world. Buffy just finds her dead when she comes home and that is it. There's no music, just words throughout the episode. And the acting was phenomenal. I didn't know the Buffy cast could act that well. Xander puts his hands through a wall and just seems stunned. Brilliant episode.
Also Buffy's death in s5. I wish they'd ended the series there, because it was so well done.
Ianto doesn't count because well, I'm still all WHYYYYY. But I do think the scene was unbelievably well done. I still can't re-watch it.
One more vote for Joyce's death. xD Dude, I rly have to watch that episode!
I think I would've appreciated Ianto's death more if RTD hadn't been such an ass about it afterwards. It was the way he talked about the fans and about how brilliant CoE was and how stupid everyone who hadn't liked it obviously was that tipped into finding every single flaw in the goddamn series, and I sort of can't unsee it. I don't have anything against the death scene, though. Just found it rather pointless. But I would've liked it mor if it had been the end of Torchwood. Day Five, I mean. Now they want to keep going and I have a feeling they'll just make all the impossible-to-bear-have-to-leave-the-planet pain of CoE become dull and meaningless.
You really should watch the Joyce episode, that was some really phenomenal tv right there. I actually sat and watched the repeat, it was that great. Despite commercials.
All the wankery on RTD's part has worsened the situation for me, I agree. He really didn't try to comprehend why people were upset. It wasn't just that Ianto was killed off, it was also that his death was purposeless. While the scene itself was well shot and beautifully acted and tasteful, the lead up just had me screaming DUMB every second. I just really want to grab RTD and inform him of the fact that he did not invent a masterpiece, Torchwood is not Battlestar Gallactica or Star Trek even, it's a mediocre scifi show with ridiculously well written characters and good actors. CoE is good but I still don't think it's great and the ends of episodes 4 and 5 did end up as rather retarded torture porn which just made me go.......what the fuck really loudly.
Exactly. He was very convinced that he'd written a piece of art to be remembered forever, and that's not really the case. Like you said, Torchwood has many problems. It fails miserably at many points, but its characters are made of pure win, and the situations they live, the whole sci-fi thing and all that jazz, it makes them unique. And incredibly well acted, too. Well... Most of them. BUT ANYWAY! It was really RTD's ridiculously huge diva-like ego what made me start to look for every single flaw on CoE, and there are countless. If he had been more realistic - and humble - about his work, then I probably wouldn't have minded it so much. I can't STAND divas. Can't.
Like you, I was wtf-ing very loudly throughout the episode. To me, it felt a little like there was something missing. And I'm not talking about an 'I love you too'.
Buffy-Verse: Tara's death because it had the shock value, took nothing away from the character and was delivered a different message on the Buffy-verse - that humans can be monsters.
Lord of the Rings - Boromir's death... Hurt everytime - even though I knew it was coming. I love that he falls and then redeems himself by dying for the hobbits. He proves his honour in the end.
Angel-verse - Doyle. So sad. And so funny - leaving Cordelia with his gift.
The Vampire Chronicles - Akasha - so bloody gruesome! Excellent! Just what we want from our death scenes.
The Vicar of Dibley - Mrs Cropley. Really touching and yet - funny as hell!
You just reminded me of Doyle!!! I think that was the first time I was actually depressed for more than an hour after the death of a tv character. I missed him through out the series.
Oh, Boromir! Yes! I liked it, too. Not on my top five, probably, but I liked him as a character, and I thought his death was very well handled, how he able to prove his value in the end. It was great.
You are the first person to ever compliment Tara's death, that I have seen. xD I haven't seen Buffy, so I don't have an opinion. But yeah, it's nice to have different pov's.
In general, I've long gotten over, and become, impaitent with the romanticizing of death but there are still a few deaths that go beyond that to provide a deeper meaning to the involved characters and shows
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I haven't watched Star Trek. :( Not enough, at least. But someone else mentioned Spock's death, too. I did see the movie, and I can't really say that I think Kirk's father's death touched on the feel of real Star Trek, but I agree with you that it was very well done. I didn't have any previous deep contact with the characters, and I still liked it
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And, okay, this is totally spoilery but the movie's amazing anyway and everyone should see it. Life is Beautiful (La Vita e Bella). Has the best death ever.
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And I wasn't thinking about movies, but totally agree on that one, yeah. La Vita e Bella is one of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen.
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Also, and call me weird for this if you must, but the sister's death in The Bodyguard. I loved that film, and all its quirky characters, and both her death scene and the fall out from it are utterly fabulous.
Lastly, Third Watch, and the ep "After Hours". There're only dead guest stars, but it's an amazing ep.
This what you had in mind?
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You didn't like Ianto's death, right? But what didn't you like about it: the way it was done, or the fact it happened at all?
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Owen's death was perfect, to me. It was a good scene, it gave the character a sense of completeness, like his story had been told. Didn't feel that way about Tosh, though. I think her death was rather pointless, too. It gave more drama to the series' ending, and to the whole scene, but yeah, it could've been pretty dramatic without her dying.
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The episode about Joyce's death......it was unbelievable. I was always one of those people who watched the show for fun rather than because they were a fan but still, that episode stands out in my memory as the most well done death I've seen on tv. No melodrama, no saving the world. Buffy just finds her dead when she comes home and that is it. There's no music, just words throughout the episode. And the acting was phenomenal. I didn't know the Buffy cast could act that well. Xander puts his hands through a wall and just seems stunned. Brilliant episode.
Also Buffy's death in s5. I wish they'd ended the series there, because it was so well done.
Ianto doesn't count because well, I'm still all WHYYYYY. But I do think the scene was unbelievably well done. I still can't re-watch it.
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I think I would've appreciated Ianto's death more if RTD hadn't been such an ass about it afterwards. It was the way he talked about the fans and about how brilliant CoE was and how stupid everyone who hadn't liked it obviously was that tipped into finding every single flaw in the goddamn series, and I sort of can't unsee it. I don't have anything against the death scene, though. Just found it rather pointless. But I would've liked it mor if it had been the end of Torchwood. Day Five, I mean. Now they want to keep going and I have a feeling they'll just make all the impossible-to-bear-have-to-leave-the-planet pain of CoE become dull and meaningless.
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You really should watch the Joyce episode, that was some really phenomenal tv right there. I actually sat and watched the repeat, it was that great. Despite commercials.
All the wankery on RTD's part has worsened the situation for me, I agree. He really didn't try to comprehend why people were upset. It wasn't just that Ianto was killed off, it was also that his death was purposeless. While the scene itself was well shot and beautifully acted and tasteful, the lead up just had me screaming DUMB every second. I just really want to grab RTD and inform him of the fact that he did not invent a masterpiece, Torchwood is not Battlestar Gallactica or Star Trek even, it's a mediocre scifi show with ridiculously well written characters and good actors. CoE is good but I still don't think it's great and the ends of episodes 4 and 5 did end up as rather retarded torture porn which just made me go.......what the fuck really loudly.
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Like you, I was wtf-ing very loudly throughout the episode. To me, it felt a little like there was something missing. And I'm not talking about an 'I love you too'.
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Buffy-Verse: Tara's death because it had the shock value, took nothing away from the character and was delivered a different message on the Buffy-verse - that humans can be monsters.
Lord of the Rings - Boromir's death... Hurt everytime - even though I knew it was coming. I love that he falls and then redeems himself by dying for the hobbits. He proves his honour in the end.
Angel-verse - Doyle. So sad. And so funny - leaving Cordelia with his gift.
The Vampire Chronicles - Akasha - so bloody gruesome! Excellent! Just what we want from our death scenes.
The Vicar of Dibley - Mrs Cropley. Really touching and yet - funny as hell!
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You are the first person to ever compliment Tara's death, that I have seen. xD I haven't seen Buffy, so I don't have an opinion. But yeah, it's nice to have different pov's.
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