Torchwood Meta: Continuity, Fandom and Our Relationship to the Producers of Torchwood.

[eldarwannabe]

What Happened to the Opera Cloak? Or, The Major Continuity Inconsistencies in Immortal Sins

When I saw advertisements for the seventh episode of Miracle Day, and even as I started watching it, I assumed it happened to Linear Jack, as I refer to him. Linear Jack being the Jack after the Doctor abandoned him on Satellite Five and before Everything

Comments

[ilizze]

Ok, I'm writing this as I read because this is long and detailed and I don't want to forget what I want to say lol

[51stcenturyfox]

I agree with you. I think the "700 years" line is either an exaggeration (RTD wrote Jack's confessional riff) or maybe as a Time Agent, he made a confession in the 1300s sometime.

The "I'm a fixed point!" knowledge doesn't fit with this Jack's timeline, so he could have been guessing he was a fixed point since he doesn't age or change or die, Jack would be familiar with time theory (and it's a physics/math term) and the Doctor later confirms this to Jack.

I have no clue what was up with the coat, except they probably thought it would be extra cool for him to retrieve the coat and it's a total continuity mistake. I think the fixed point line is the same - a mistake.

I kind of feel for Jane; RTD touched up all of the scripts before shooting, so he's ultimately responsible for keeping the continuity straight.

[analineblue]

Oh, this is so good - thank you for putting this all together in one place! For me, I honestly don't know where I stand at this point. I think I'm somewhere in between deciding it's all one big series of continuity errors, and that trying to make sense out of it is never going to happen so why try? - and still wanting to come up with a theory as to when all of this could have happened that I can truly believe. *_*

I'm with ilizze though, in that I've always thought that Jack and Ianto became closer during S2. This is one reason why option #1, that this was after the Valiant, or #2, the unfreezing-and-being-sent-on-a-mission idea just don't work for me. Jack's attitude towards Angelo, to me, feels like the honest feelings of someone who is unattached. Not someone who is in a developing and deepening relationship.

And in terms of option #2, I think this is regardless of the time that passes with Jack underground. Because what we see between Jack and Ianto after that seems to indicate that Jack's feelings and memories remained intact, you

[ilizze]

[info]ilizze's idea of it being Pre-S1 Jack who somehow gets the VM fixed (or, as JE would like us to believe, comes up with some other way to time travel)

That's not what I meant so I'm going to call this your theory, but I like it :) It would explain the coat without messing up anything else so it's one of the best theories I've seen so far. The only problem would be how the VM got broken again, or whatever else was used if it wasn't the VM...I'm going to have to give this one more thought too.

I think it's supposed to be pre-S1 Jack, but living through the 20th century as he waits for the doctor and everything was just an unintentional continutiy mess. I see why you think it doesn't quite fit and I mostly agree but I just can't make anything else work. Except possibly this whole pre-S1 fixed VM. I do love a good bit of fan theory though so I'm also very curious to see what else gets thrown around and what will end up sticking.

[analineblue]

Ah, really? I guess I misread/misinterpreted that part where you mentioned Jack being on a solo mission before New Years 1999... And came up with an entirely different theory without realizing it! ;) I actually had given some thought to this before I read your comment though, and I think it could work? I really don't know that much about that time period though, which I think is what's tripping me up. You said Jack wasn't in Cardiff full-time before New Year's 1999... But do we know exactly when he took over Torchwood full-time? Is it 1999? I just honestly don't remember when/where it's discussed in canon to know for sure. Do we have evidence that Jack was working out of the hub sort of ad hoc or something before he became the "leader" of Torchwood Three? I will have to investigate this further, because this theory is sort of making sense to me at the moment, aside from the problem with the VM, obviously. Which I have no idea how you'd explain

[ilizze]

Jack took over T3 New Year's eve 1999. It's shown in Fragments. I'm assuming he was truted with solo missions from him being in the military in 1909 in Small Worlds and to get the coat it would make sense that he served in WWII as well. I can't actually remember where Jack being freelance before that comes from though which is bad of me. Maybe the Torchwood Archives book? Or maybe Fragments too? I'm going to have to watch Fragments again now because that's going to bug me lol.

I have no ideas on the VM either. I don't have a problem with it being fixed and Jack staying on Earth because by then he's had the tarot reading that said when he'd find the Doctor again so he'd stick around. But it getting broken again...more complicated.

A lot of my time today has been taken up by interesting fan theory. I'm enjoying it immensely :D

[coldwater1010]

Heh! I think the fans are thinking about this 'way' more than the writers ever did. I think the fixed point, VM and aliens are there to clue in the new audience to certain relevant information about Jack and Torchwood. I doubt it goes much deeper than this. New audiences aren't going to know that these are errors so if they're trying to suggest that this is a time travelling Jack shouldn't that be more explicit

[fide_et_spe]

I think from watching Miracle Day they have adopted this idea of what makes Jack. A set of catchphrases, clothes, and quirks. So he likes suits, people like his coat. He is his coat etc. I really think it's just that. So the producers, writers, don't really care about some aspects of continuity, because it serves a greater purpose to introduce Jack and Torchwood to new fans, it's the fans that care about this stuff

[coldwater1010]

Well JE did they say they did their historical research, if not show research, but not extensively enough apparently.