Torchwood Meta: Continuity, Fandom and Our Relationship to the Producers of Torchwood.

[eldarwannabe]

What Happened to the Opera Cloak? Or, The Major Continuity Inconsistencies in Immortal Sins

When I saw advertisements for the seventh episode of Miracle Day, and even as I started watching it, I assumed it happened to Linear Jack, as I refer to him. Linear Jack being the Jack after the Doctor abandoned him on Satellite Five and before Everything

Comments

[analineblue]

Oh, this is so good - thank you for putting this all together in one place! For me, I honestly don't know where I stand at this point. I think I'm somewhere in between deciding it's all one big series of continuity errors, and that trying to make sense out of it is never going to happen so why try? - and still wanting to come up with a theory as to when all of this could have happened that I can truly believe. *_*

I'm with ilizze though, in that I've always thought that Jack and Ianto became closer during S2. This is one reason why option #1, that this was after the Valiant, or #2, the unfreezing-and-being-sent-on-a-mission idea just don't work for me. Jack's attitude towards Angelo, to me, feels like the honest feelings of someone who is unattached. Not someone who is in a developing and deepening relationship.

And in terms of option #2, I think this is regardless of the time that passes with Jack underground. Because what we see between Jack and Ianto after that seems to indicate that Jack's feelings and memories remained intact, you know? I feel like the validation of their relationship, at least of the fact that they're a recognized couple, is there in canon. Whether they're entirely monogamous or in an open relationship or not, I just can't believe that Jack would go off and have this sweeping love affair in the middle of it, regardless of how the terms of the relationship are defined or not with Ianto. They're talking about their relationship as if it's a Real Thing in COE, and in THOTD, should we take this as canon, Jack admits to a lot more, and this really validates the relationship with Ianto, I think.

And also, Jack's relationship with Angelo feels really sincere, and I want to believe it's sincere, and not... In the middle of another relationship that I also believe is sincere, you know?

And while I would love to accept the idea that this is Linear Timeline Jack, waiting for the Doctor, the way Jack behaves in this episode doesn't really jive with that either to me. He just seems to know too much? There's the "fixed point" statement, and then the statement about "things getting worse, then better, then worse" and even his attitude about the alien in the warehouse - it just seems like he's been doing this for a while that he has a broader understanding of what's going on than he seems to in the other way-back flashbacks, and so in that sense, it almost does feel like post-COE Jack?

Which is why I'm left still not really knowing what I think.

I'm going to have to give some more thought to ilizze's idea of it being Pre-S1 Jack who somehow gets the VM fixed (or, as JE would like us to believe, comes up with some other way to time travel) and that we ignore the 'fixed point' line and just assume that this is Jack, on his own, before he's leading Torchwood in any formal way. I could maybe handle that.

But for me, it's sort of like... with every explanation, there's something too large for me to ignore that just sticks out, staring me in the face. And it's frustrating. And I will be very curious to see what story ends up sticking with fandom (and in my own personal canon) after it all shakes out. *__*

Can I also just say too that I'm utterly terrified that tomorrow's episode is going to bring something into this whole mix that josses everything all over again? And then I have to start from scratch? XD;

[ilizze]

[info]ilizze's idea of it being Pre-S1 Jack who somehow gets the VM fixed (or, as JE would like us to believe, comes up with some other way to time travel)

That's not what I meant so I'm going to call this your theory, but I like it :) It would explain the coat without messing up anything else so it's one of the best theories I've seen so far. The only problem would be how the VM got broken again, or whatever else was used if it wasn't the VM...I'm going to have to give this one more thought too.

I think it's supposed to be pre-S1 Jack, but living through the 20th century as he waits for the doctor and everything was just an unintentional continutiy mess. I see why you think it doesn't quite fit and I mostly agree but I just can't make anything else work. Except possibly this whole pre-S1 fixed VM. I do love a good bit of fan theory though so I'm also very curious to see what else gets thrown around and what will end up sticking.

[analineblue]

Ah, really? I guess I misread/misinterpreted that part where you mentioned Jack being on a solo mission before New Years 1999... And came up with an entirely different theory without realizing it! ;) I actually had given some thought to this before I read your comment though, and I think it could work? I really don't know that much about that time period though, which I think is what's tripping me up. You said Jack wasn't in Cardiff full-time before New Year's 1999... But do we know exactly when he took over Torchwood full-time? Is it 1999? I just honestly don't remember when/where it's discussed in canon to know for sure. Do we have evidence that Jack was working out of the hub sort of ad hoc or something before he became the "leader" of Torchwood Three? I will have to investigate this further, because this theory is sort of making sense to me at the moment, aside from the problem with the VM, obviously. Which I have no idea how you'd explain.

But yeah, I do think that all things considered, it's pre-S1 Jack with a lot of mistakes. I can't make anything else work yet either though, so I have a feeling that in the end, this is what it will come down to, but... It is interesting, all these ideas. *_*

[ilizze]

Jack took over T3 New Year's eve 1999. It's shown in Fragments. I'm assuming he was truted with solo missions from him being in the military in 1909 in Small Worlds and to get the coat it would make sense that he served in WWII as well. I can't actually remember where Jack being freelance before that comes from though which is bad of me. Maybe the Torchwood Archives book? Or maybe Fragments too? I'm going to have to watch Fragments again now because that's going to bug me lol.

I have no ideas on the VM either. I don't have a problem with it being fixed and Jack staying on Earth because by then he's had the tarot reading that said when he'd find the Doctor again so he'd stick around. But it getting broken again...more complicated.

A lot of my time today has been taken up by interesting fan theory. I'm enjoying it immensely :D

[ilizze]

Got it - he's listed as an uncontracted agent in Fragments when he first joins Torchwood. That would give him room to be going places and not stay in Cardiff all the time. Looking closely at the report being typed on the computer in his flashback it also says he was found again to be acting covertly outside of Torchwood's jurisdiction, to find the Doctor. Although he's listed as a field agent there, but there's probably enough time where he works for Torchwood, but not necessarily all the time, as an uncontracted agent. So maybe he acts out of their jurisdiction in some other things too?

[analineblue]

Oh, that's awesome that you found that. *_* I just made a little post here, where I was trying to gather my thoughts about it, but yeah... I'm thinking that this could maybe make sense. So either he did this out of Torchwood's jurisdiction, using some technology of some sort to go back to 1927, or it was an official assignment based on intelligence of some sort? Maybe?

I think I like the "some other way" of time travel idea better than the VM because like you said, fixing it and then breaking it again causes another whole host of issues. @_@

...A lot of my time today has been taken up by this too, lol. I keep telling myself I'm going to stop, and then... :P