Classic Who Meta: the Time War

[kilodalton]

Comments

[akkajemo]

In regards to "are some regenerations tougher than others?" I'll just say 'yes', as imo that is the case. Nine was hardened by the war, by ptsd (see his reaction to the first Dalek he encounters after the war), by survivor's guilt and by what his eighth self had done. And I once heard Eight described as The Doctor's gentlest incarnation. Now, I haven't listened to any of his audio adventures, so all I have to go on is the movie. But based on that I'd say that's fair. Eight was also the first Doctor to break the 'don't kiss your companion' rule. So if he indeed was the most gentle one, then to me logically it follows that any other Doctor would have found himself capable of doing this, too, if necessary.

[meremoon]

Gentlest incarnation? I can see why some might say that, but I disagree. You'd had to listen to the audios to see it, but Eight has a dark side that is positively fearsome and terrifying. But that side of him only shows itself when he's been provoked. He's still the Doctor, and would never have done anything so extreme without good reason.

[akkajemo]

This raises an interesting question: Are the audio adventures official canon? I've listened to a lot of nu!who audio and in some cases really hope that they're not considered canonical.

I know that psyfi_geekgirl has written amazing Eighth Doctor stuff that is very dark and steeped in that intensity you talk about, also after listening to a lot of his audio adventures (shameless pimping for her amazing story arc - for 'season one' click this link here: http://psyfi-geekgirl.livejournal.com/26361.html).
However, the part in 'season 2' dealing with the Eighth Doctor is mostly post-time-war-Eight, who is, as a result of the events, fully bonkers.

I also believe that every Doctor has a very dark and terrifying side, each to a degree, of course. Still, while all I have to go on is visual canon, then Eight, to me, is the most gentle.

[yggdrasilfarms]

Doctor Who is unique in sci-fi in that it simply does not have canon in the same way other franchises do. Authority based canon, that is, a creator who owns rights to the media and decides what did or did not happen, is not a thing in Doctor Who. This is partly because there are simply so many different creators, but it is mostly because those who are arguably the ones in charge, R.T. Davies, Steven Moffat, Paul Cornell, have explicitly denied canon. They have said that the television show definitely happened, but that they will not rule on canonicity of expanded universe material. They have also said that in cases where the television show contradicts itself, that the universe is complex enough that both things can be considered to have happened with a convoluted continuity. This is awesome news for us. We don't have to discard good stories simply because some authority figure says so. Canon is mostly rubbish anyway and is simply used to browbeat other people into accepting a prevailing opinion most of the time.

[10littlebullets]

It's a funny thing about Eight and the Time War--usually when the Doctor is faced with a cold-blooded act of violence that would stop a much larger catastrophe in its tracks, he balks and refuses. Particularly relevant are Four hesitating to blow up the infant Daleks in Genesis and Eight point-blank refusing to shoot a companion in the BFA audios, even though she's begging him to do it because otherwise she'll become a portal for a power that would destroy the universe. I've often wondered what the hell could drive Eight, who admitted that he was making a selfish and cowardly decision but couldn't bring himself to do otherwise, to end the Time War with a much greater atrocity for the sake of the universe's continued existence

[meremoon]

The thing about that choice he made with Charley - refusing to shoot her even if it's to save the universe - is that he's not consistent. There's a moment in 'Zagreus' where he makes the exact opposite choice. Charley is about to be swept out of the TARDIS, probably to her death, and the Doctor refuses to intervene to save her, because it would mean unleashing the Zagreus energy inside him upon the universe.

[10littlebullets]

I think there's a difference, though, between actively doing something nasty to prevent a greater evil from occurring and sitting back and letting something happen. Action vs. inaction.

regeneration not accurate

[redcirce]

I've often wondered what the hell could drive Eight, who admitted that he was making a selfish and cowardly decision but couldn't bring himself to do otherwise, to end the Time War

Honestly? I'm guessing Romana had a lot to do with it. I can't see him making that decision without a lot of pushing from her.

[yggdrasilfarms]

I'm ambivalent about whether some incarnations are tougher than others. I want to say no, but I do think some were tougher. And it's not the ones you think. I think the Doctor's younger incarnations were not quite as dark or as "tough" if you will as his later ones. I think Two and Five were both very gentle. Nine was not gentle, by any means, but I believe he was brittle. Seven, and Eight were incredibly dark and complex, playing chess with the universe as it were.

I think R.T. Davies' creation of the Time War was a brilliant bit of characterization. It's certainly given us so much to ponder, and write about!