In real life real people have real motives for what they do, whether good or bad. Even those who end up doing pure evil stuff. They end up doing their evil deeds, but they got that way somehow. Some of it may have been some congenital aspects of their personality, some of it the result of how they were cared for in their early years, some of it the result of their interactions with peers, some of it may have been the result of cultural influences - and the interaction of all these and many other factors. Somehow everything got together with the end result of a person for whom harming others horribly makes more sense than other actions
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It may have been intentional. Rowling might not put it out there but Bellatrix wasn't the only person in the series to scar a word into a child's skin.
Actually in canon (books) those are Hermione and Dolores, not Bellatrix. Bella 'just' used the Cruciatus. And Rowling chickened out of the Hermione/Dolores comparison by changing Hermione's middle name between interview and DH.
I did not make the rant up. I actually borrowed it from a very old page of rants on the Internet, posted by a fanbrat for a different fandom (hence why I copied and pasted Harry Potter names into it).
But I do agree- the Death Eaters would work better as Nazi analogs if there was some logic to what they do, but there just isn't. As I've said before, it's as though Rowling was worried that her villains weren't evil enough so she threw in the Nazi references to make them seem more evil.
Oh. Sorry. *Facepalms* May I ask what fandom it was originally for, or should I refrain from asking? #Genuinely curious. I mean, it really does feel like a game of "What's Wrong With This Picture", doesn't it? Like, "How many logical fallacies can you spot in this argument?"
And thank you. :)
And I agree. Completely. Like Film Brain said in his review of ULTRAVIOLET, "When you need to add substance to your shitty movie (or book, or whatever), just add Nazis!" Which is just insulting to those who died in the Holocaust, IMHO -- because the Holocaust, ultimately, is something we can't entirely grasp. The carnage that went on, the atrocities, why people did what they did, etc. etc. Or at the very least, we think we can just toss it into our stories, like Insta-Evil Just Add Nazis (or "Everything's Worse With Nazis", or whatever), when in fact, that's not how it works. It's not just offensive, it's bad writing. You have to actually work at developing your villains' motivations, building the tension, etc. etc., otherwise, you're pretty
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It was from the Pokemon anime fandom. The character being described was unpleasant to her associates to begin with, but this fanfic author was infamous for her tendency to shut down any interpretations of characters that differed from her own (kinda like the Harry Potter fanbrats on TV Tropes
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This person doesn't seem to get an important distinction: that you can have sympathy for the abused child someone was, and be angry about the suffering they experienced, while still being appalled and disgusted by the violent and dangerous adult they became. While it seems to be true that certain kinds of violent behavior, including psychopathy, have a hereditary element, that can be overcome by a very loving and supportive upbringing.
OTOH, I've read many true crime books, including several by John Douglas and Robert Ressler, legendary heads of the FBI's profiling unit. In none of those books have I read an account of a violent criminal, particularly a serial killer, who did not come from a very violent, abusive, and neglectful background (where the criminal's background was discussed at all). Fortunately for society, the vast majority a people who suffer like that do not become violent criminals, but the fact remains that childhood abuse often translates into adult violence. Oryx is right. It's important to study people like
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It does seem useful to know that what goes into making a violent person like Bellatrix. No, not all kids turn out the same way given the same conditions - but not all people who eat high-cholesterol diets have heart attacks either, and that doesn't mean the ones who do are just mentally willing their hearts to malfunction out of sheer perversity, or that the ones who escaped wouldn't have been still better off if they'd had better diets. There's other factors, which may or may not be under a person's control, and separating them all out and figuring out how they interact is helpful.
The distinction between sympathy for an abused child and horror at the bad things said child did as an adult is actually something I'm trying to play around with in a fanfic I'm writing about one of my favorite villains. I'm deliberately setting him up as very sympathetic as a young person, and then I'll make him behave badly as an adult, just to see what people make of him for it.
Harry was sympathetic enough in chapter 2 of PS, if not quite Jane Eyre....
(Which, when you think of it, is actually a more interesting study--how does someone deprived and abused become strong enough to choose what is right...?)
Well for one thing, we don't read/hear much of anything about Bellatrix prior to her imprisonment in Azkaban, and absolutely NOTHING about her prior to her joining the DEs
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Interestingly enough, I happened across some signage advertising a talk given last week at my school about murderers and the like. I didn't actually go to the talk, but from the signs it appeared that the speaker would be discussing a theory that people in general are inherently evil, and that it has to be trained out of us or we'll naturally go on to commit murder (or something). The theory came from a psychiatrist in criminal justice, too.
Rings my BS bells. Babies are naturally empathetic. And I doubt humans could have lasted as a social species all these generations without evolving some natural inclination to sociability. Either this person has issues with empathy s/he is projecting to everyone else or s/he is burnt out from too much interaction with psychiatric patients.
Well it is psychiatrists who tend to say things like "everyone is neurotic," which they would get from their constantly interacting with neurotic people to begin with.
No, NOooooo. Don't venture into the realm of My Little Pony.
I'm a MLP collector so I know what kinda evil awaits you there.
And as a MLP collector I disagree with Snape being put into Voldemort and Bellatrix grouping of bad. And James Potter is a dickhead, I question the term 'good' being used in reference to James Potter. His character is at best a sperm donor.
MLP, yes, I have ponies....lots of ponies. In fact I have considered adding ponies to Lego Snape (Yay you get a spoiler) But Yes, lets just say if Severus wanted, he would have his own massive army of multicolored ponies. Voldemort would have nothing on Severus if Severus could get the ponies on his side. Oh course G1 ponies are a lot bigger than Lego minifigs. I'd probably be better off using the new line of ponies from the Friendship is Magic series but I haven't even gotten around to opening those guys up yet. There is the hard plastic set that would probably work well but G4 hasn't been in production long so Severus would lack for a suitable army (heeh)
Here is a link to an old photo of my collection. It's actually grown since this photo was taken, that said there is well over 900 ponies when this was taken.
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But I do agree- the Death Eaters would work better as Nazi analogs if there was some logic to what they do, but there just isn't. As I've said before, it's as though Rowling was worried that her villains weren't evil enough so she threw in the Nazi references to make them seem more evil.
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And thank you. :)
And I agree. Completely. Like Film Brain said in his review of ULTRAVIOLET, "When you need to add substance to your shitty movie (or book, or whatever), just add Nazis!" Which is just insulting to those who died in the Holocaust, IMHO -- because the Holocaust, ultimately, is something we can't entirely grasp. The carnage that went on, the atrocities, why people did what they did, etc. etc. Or at the very least, we think we can just toss it into our stories, like Insta-Evil Just Add Nazis (or "Everything's Worse With Nazis", or whatever), when in fact, that's not how it works. It's not just offensive, it's bad writing. You have to actually work at developing your villains' motivations, building the tension, etc. etc., otherwise, you're pretty ( ... )
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OTOH, I've read many true crime books, including several by John Douglas and Robert Ressler, legendary heads of the FBI's profiling unit. In none of those books have I read an account of a violent criminal, particularly a serial killer, who did not come from a very violent, abusive, and neglectful background (where the criminal's background was discussed at all). Fortunately for society, the vast majority a people who suffer like that do not become violent criminals, but the fact remains that childhood abuse often translates into adult violence. Oryx is right. It's important to study people like ( ... )
Reply
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Harry was sympathetic enough in chapter 2 of PS, if not quite Jane Eyre....
(Which, when you think of it, is actually a more interesting study--how does someone deprived and abused become strong enough to choose what is right...?)
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
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I'm a MLP collector so I know what kinda evil awaits you there.
And as a MLP collector I disagree with Snape being put into Voldemort and Bellatrix grouping of bad. And James Potter is a dickhead, I question the term 'good' being used in reference to James Potter. His character is at best a sperm donor.
Reply
Reply
Here is a link to an old photo of my collection. It's actually grown since this photo was taken, that said there is well over 900 ponies when this was taken.
( ... )
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