(Even if the rant really did feel like HIGHLIGHTS -- you know, What's Wrong With This Picture? But I think it was intentional. :) And you did beautifully. :) #Sorry if I'm not making sense, BTW; I'm low on sleep.
And yeah, what oryx_leucoryx said. Seriously. I think Bellatrix had reasons for her actions, twisted as they may be -- because honestly, I don't care what Rowling says, no one just wakes up in the morning and decides, a la Dr. Evil, "You know what I'm going to do today? Do something evil!" (Insert your own evil act here, like drinking the tears of orphans, pulling the tag off a mattress, etc. Although maybe the mattress thing isn't perfect; I think some non-evil people in real life might do that out of boredom. They'd probably get caught though. #Correct me if I'm wrong) That and...there has to be some reason that the Death Eaters follow Voldemort. Not because they're pure evil, because, really, that's not how it works. Take Nazi Germany for instance -- Germany itself was still suffering from defeat in the First World War, and, of course, how the US mistreated them regarding the Treaty of Versailles. Enter Hitler, who promises them that they can have it all back if they want -- that, and giving them an easy target for blame in the process. If Rowling had written something like that for Voldemort, I think that her villains would actually come off as realistic and thus, more frightening -- not strawmen. And that's what really gets on my nerves regarding the HP series -- too many Designated Heroes and Villains. Rowling assumes that we're just going to take her word for it, but in truth, you can't. The experience goes two ways -- the author writes the story, and the audience interprets it. Unfortunately, I doubt Rowling really "got it", TBH.
I did not make the rant up. I actually borrowed it from a very old page of rants on the Internet, posted by a fanbrat for a different fandom (hence why I copied and pasted Harry Potter names into it).
But I do agree- the Death Eaters would work better as Nazi analogs if there was some logic to what they do, but there just isn't. As I've said before, it's as though Rowling was worried that her villains weren't evil enough so she threw in the Nazi references to make them seem more evil.
Oh. Sorry. *Facepalms* May I ask what fandom it was originally for, or should I refrain from asking? #Genuinely curious. I mean, it really does feel like a game of "What's Wrong With This Picture", doesn't it? Like, "How many logical fallacies can you spot in this argument?"
And thank you. :)
And I agree. Completely. Like Film Brain said in his review of ULTRAVIOLET, "When you need to add substance to your shitty movie (or book, or whatever), just add Nazis!" Which is just insulting to those who died in the Holocaust, IMHO -- because the Holocaust, ultimately, is something we can't entirely grasp. The carnage that went on, the atrocities, why people did what they did, etc. etc. Or at the very least, we think we can just toss it into our stories, like Insta-Evil Just Add Nazis (or "Everything's Worse With Nazis", or whatever), when in fact, that's not how it works. It's not just offensive, it's bad writing. You have to actually work at developing your villains' motivations, building the tension, etc. etc., otherwise, you're pretty much doomed. Honestly, the DELTORA QUEST series -- I think Emily Rodda did much better with her villains than Rowling did with hers, because she actually took time to develop their menace: from the Tragic Monster types like Fardeep and Soldeen to creatures like the Shadowlord, etc. etc. (I think she's just a better writer than Rowling overall, but...I think I've rambled enough)
It was from the Pokemon anime fandom. The character being described was unpleasant to her associates to begin with, but this fanfic author was infamous for her tendency to shut down any interpretations of characters that differed from her own (kinda like the Harry Potter fanbrats on TV Tropes...).
What makes the Nazi parallels worse is the fact that, as has already been stated, the bad guys may be discriminating against Muggleborns but we see the HEROES treating anyone who isn't a wizard with dismissive contempt, and that's apparently supposed to be okay. I remember when I was much younger I read a series of fantasy books about talking owls, in which the main villain was a Nazi owl- and the series faced the same problem because the heroic owls constantly made fun of or looked down on any birds who weren't other owls because they didn't regurgitate pellets (or something). Admittedly I never finished the series so I don't know if that was ever addressed, but even this series did better than Rowling simply because the Nazi parallels actually had some buildup (however minimal), rather than just feeling tacked on to increase the villains' evilness.
Do Americans (for this was an American-made movie) really think that this is what Nazism is all about? Something that only Evil People will fall for? Something that might never happen to YOU because YOU Believe In Stories?
Quite possibly, though as an American, that particular idea pisses me off, so the conditioning doesn't get us all. Though I know my school was unusual in trying to teach us subtleties and making sure we understood what the Milgram experiment meant and things like that. But I think the idea that someone who's really nice at the neighborhood barbecue and loves his kids could then go make lampshades out of human skin is just too horrifying for a lot of us to handle (not to mention the idea that something we do in ignorance or without intending anything bad could end up having horrible consequences), so we'd rather pretend that Evil comes in specially marked packages with skulls and crossbones on them so no one could get mixed up.
There's also the cultural baggage of the whole Native American genocide the US perpetrated over centuries: try to talk to people about that, and you'll get, "But they must not have known they were moving onto Indian land," and "But they must not have known any Indians, so all they knew was they were getting attacked and really believed the Indians were all just cruel and inhuman," and any number of ways to avoid having to think that those nice, brave pioneers and manly cowboys and Union soldiers did know what they were doing. (It's really hard to justify soldiers mowing down women and children and making necklaces out of human ears, so most school history books leave those bits out.) A whole lot of energy goes into maintaining the national myths that make our ancestors look less bad (at least they've stopped trying to justify slavery as far as I know, but still aren't very good at addressing how Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Patrick Henry could be slaveowners), and I can't help but think that these kinds of stories are an outgrowth of that. Not that other countries wouldn't have their own reasons for similar stories - the British Empire comes to mind. And then there's personal narcissism, but I think the larger cultural mythology is needed for the popularity of the stories.
"But I think the idea that someone who's really nice at the neighborhood barbecue and loves his kids could then go make lampshades out of human skin is just too horrifying for a lot of us to handle (not to mention the idea that something we do in ignorance or without intending anything bad could end up having horrible consequences), so we'd rather pretend that Evil comes in specially marked packages with skulls and crossbones on them so no one could get mixed up."
It's the same logic that drives the failure of Captain Planet- all the villains were jerkasses who polluted for fun, which defeated its whole purpose by suggesting that only certain, obviously-evil people could possibly be part of the problem.
Well, it would hardly look good to have Captain Planet terrorizing industrial workers who really have nothing to do with their company's policies, would it?
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. It's usually the villains that are supposed to do stuff like that -- not the heroes. Yes, heroes can make stupid mistakes at times, but there's kind of a fine line between making stupid mistakes and being a sociopath. Which, unfortunately, seems to be the problem with how Harry's character is written then and there. :/ What do you think?
And yet he is consistently thought by both JKR and her fans to be a Christ parallel. I think the main problem is that Harry doesn't learn from anything. I hardly consider myself to be an amazing writer, but at least my immature, self-centered protagonist gets better and actually acknowledges that he has done the wrong thing. That is something I am somewhat proud of.
I try. However, I hope I don't sound crazy but it seems like a lot of his development is a result of his personal choices, not my forcing him in a given way. Suddenly being in a much less forgiving environment and having your beloved sister in danger because of your irresponsibility seems to do a lot to make you grow up. ;-)
Not that I will probably publish it or anything. In fact, I sometimes wish that I could hit up a better writer to write it for me because I feel like my characters deserve better.
Aww, thanks! The first half of what I have is pretty old and terrible, but I think some of the new chapters are better. Am a bit embarrassed of them, but I did post as much as I have on my main LJ page. I would appreciate comments, though please don't mind some of the suckitude. (that's a word!) If you do read it, let me know because there are some things I have changed that aren't reflected in the older chapters. There are also some world-building things I need to clarify for it to make sense.
I feel pretty bad for my protagonist at this point- he's silly and arrogant but not a bad person. Still, if this doesn't make sort of a hero out of him then nothing will.
Good point. Considering a lot of the history of the US, Americans really have no excuse for not understanding how Nazism works. I mean, I'm pretty sure that they got a lot of ideas from our Eugenics movement in the early 20th century. One could also mention things like the internment of Japanese-Americans and the violence against civil rights protesters here. We ought to be the most understanding, really, not the most ignorant.
That was awesome. Seriously. XD
(Even if the rant really did feel like HIGHLIGHTS -- you know, What's Wrong With This Picture? But I think it was intentional. :) And you did beautifully. :) #Sorry if I'm not making sense, BTW; I'm low on sleep.
And yeah, what oryx_leucoryx said. Seriously. I think Bellatrix had reasons for her actions, twisted as they may be -- because honestly, I don't care what Rowling says, no one just wakes up in the morning and decides, a la Dr. Evil, "You know what I'm going to do today? Do something evil!" (Insert your own evil act here, like drinking the tears of orphans, pulling the tag off a mattress, etc. Although maybe the mattress thing isn't perfect; I think some non-evil people in real life might do that out of boredom. They'd probably get caught though. #Correct me if I'm wrong) That and...there has to be some reason that the Death Eaters follow Voldemort. Not because they're pure evil, because, really, that's not how it works. Take Nazi Germany for instance -- Germany itself was still suffering from defeat in the First World War, and, of course, how the US mistreated them regarding the Treaty of Versailles. Enter Hitler, who promises them that they can have it all back if they want -- that, and giving them an easy target for blame in the process. If Rowling had written something like that for Voldemort, I think that her villains would actually come off as realistic and thus, more frightening -- not strawmen. And that's what really gets on my nerves regarding the HP series -- too many Designated Heroes and Villains. Rowling assumes that we're just going to take her word for it, but in truth, you can't. The experience goes two ways -- the author writes the story, and the audience interprets it. Unfortunately, I doubt Rowling really "got it", TBH.
Again, great rant. :)
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But I do agree- the Death Eaters would work better as Nazi analogs if there was some logic to what they do, but there just isn't. As I've said before, it's as though Rowling was worried that her villains weren't evil enough so she threw in the Nazi references to make them seem more evil.
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And thank you. :)
And I agree. Completely. Like Film Brain said in his review of ULTRAVIOLET, "When you need to add substance to your shitty movie (or book, or whatever), just add Nazis!" Which is just insulting to those who died in the Holocaust, IMHO -- because the Holocaust, ultimately, is something we can't entirely grasp. The carnage that went on, the atrocities, why people did what they did, etc. etc. Or at the very least, we think we can just toss it into our stories, like Insta-Evil Just Add Nazis (or "Everything's Worse With Nazis", or whatever), when in fact, that's not how it works. It's not just offensive, it's bad writing. You have to actually work at developing your villains' motivations, building the tension, etc. etc., otherwise, you're pretty much doomed. Honestly, the DELTORA QUEST series -- I think Emily Rodda did much better with her villains than Rowling did with hers, because she actually took time to develop their menace: from the Tragic Monster types like Fardeep and Soldeen to creatures like the Shadowlord, etc. etc. (I think she's just a better writer than Rowling overall, but...I think I've rambled enough)
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What makes the Nazi parallels worse is the fact that, as has already been stated, the bad guys may be discriminating against Muggleborns but we see the HEROES treating anyone who isn't a wizard with dismissive contempt, and that's apparently supposed to be okay. I remember when I was much younger I read a series of fantasy books about talking owls, in which the main villain was a Nazi owl- and the series faced the same problem because the heroic owls constantly made fun of or looked down on any birds who weren't other owls because they didn't regurgitate pellets (or something). Admittedly I never finished the series so I don't know if that was ever addressed, but even this series did better than Rowling simply because the Nazi parallels actually had some buildup (however minimal), rather than just feeling tacked on to increase the villains' evilness.
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(The comment has been removed)
Quite possibly, though as an American, that particular idea pisses me off, so the conditioning doesn't get us all. Though I know my school was unusual in trying to teach us subtleties and making sure we understood what the Milgram experiment meant and things like that. But I think the idea that someone who's really nice at the neighborhood barbecue and loves his kids could then go make lampshades out of human skin is just too horrifying for a lot of us to handle (not to mention the idea that something we do in ignorance or without intending anything bad could end up having horrible consequences), so we'd rather pretend that Evil comes in specially marked packages with skulls and crossbones on them so no one could get mixed up.
There's also the cultural baggage of the whole Native American genocide the US perpetrated over centuries: try to talk to people about that, and you'll get, "But they must not have known they were moving onto Indian land," and "But they must not have known any Indians, so all they knew was they were getting attacked and really believed the Indians were all just cruel and inhuman," and any number of ways to avoid having to think that those nice, brave pioneers and manly cowboys and Union soldiers did know what they were doing. (It's really hard to justify soldiers mowing down women and children and making necklaces out of human ears, so most school history books leave those bits out.) A whole lot of energy goes into maintaining the national myths that make our ancestors look less bad (at least they've stopped trying to justify slavery as far as I know, but still aren't very good at addressing how Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Patrick Henry could be slaveowners), and I can't help but think that these kinds of stories are an outgrowth of that. Not that other countries wouldn't have their own reasons for similar stories - the British Empire comes to mind. And then there's personal narcissism, but I think the larger cultural mythology is needed for the popularity of the stories.
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It's the same logic that drives the failure of Captain Planet- all the villains were jerkasses who polluted for fun, which defeated its whole purpose by suggesting that only certain, obviously-evil people could possibly be part of the problem.
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Not that I will probably publish it or anything. In fact, I sometimes wish that I could hit up a better writer to write it for me because I feel like my characters deserve better.
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And yeah...stuff like that *can* break a man. It truly can.
And I'm sure you're a pretty good writer. Don't worry. *Hugs*
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I feel pretty bad for my protagonist at this point- he's silly and arrogant but not a bad person. Still, if this doesn't make sort of a hero out of him then nothing will.
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Honestly, from the description of your protagonist, I'm hooked already. :)
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