100 Things Challenge (#3): Confidence and the Wimpy Writer

[dawn_felagund]

Today, I received good news about a paper I'd written for my recent grad school class, but for the first time in a long while, I'd been very nervous about something I'd written. It's that comfortable old dread, that sudden realization of the possibility that one has labored hard and still produced a dud. As I clicked through the university's

Comments

[huinare]

Congrats on your (unsurprising and well-earned) grade!

I had to laugh reading your descriptions of Those Guys. I've taken two semesters of honors composition and I've already come to recognize them. I do believe you're onto something about overconfidence generating complacency about the quality of one's work.

I don't avoid pointing out foibles, nor exaggerate the good points of the writing, but rather take care to point out both the merits and hitches I encounter in the work. It always kills me when I give what I consider a well-rounded and sensitive critique to Those Guys and then receive from them a bunch of narrow, condescending remarks. I always think, "Well, had I known it was going to be that way, I'd have been a little bit cruel, because your work's not all that."

[dawn_felagund]

Exactly! I chose Those Guys from my class, but I could have just as easily chosen two memorable individuals that I worked with as an editor. The first sent in a story to Bartleby and asked for critique (which we offered, being a university publication with education a part of our mission), and my staff of six and I worked on the story individually, then got together and discussed it while I put together composite feedback for the author. The story wasn't very good. We all agreed on that and also that, barring major edits, we would not accept the story. We did not inform the author of our decision at the time (since we made acceptance decisions at the end of fall semester), but I sent in the staff's comments ... and he wrote back that we didn't get it. Yes, I and my staff--seven people, all pretty advanced in English and writing coursework--all managed to miss his brilliance. One person, maybe, but seven?? That's you, buddy!

The second was when I was editing for Antithesis Common; a writer sent in a "story" that was, to put it nicely

[huinare]

Yes, I and my staff--seven people, all pretty advanced in English and writing coursework--all managed to miss his brilliance. One person, maybe, but seven?? That's you, buddy!

At this point, one might hope he would start to accept that his brilliance is comprehensible only to him, and that if he wants his writing to interface with the broader world he'll have to make some alterations (although more likely he went on complaining about how no one gets it).

[dawn_felagund]

Yes, exactly! One could argue that one of the fundamental purposes of a piece of writing is communication, and if it utterly fails to communicate with readers, then that's something to worry about. No matter how brilliant a story in this guy's brain, I need it on paper! :)

[spiced_wine]

but it does often seem, in my experience anyway, that the overly confident writers don't have the skill that the wimps do. I've had this conversation with other writers, who recognize the self-destructiveness of their terror of criticism or putting their stories "out there," whether for comment or publicationI agree with this. I've noticed it really since joining LJ to talk to fanfic authors, but lately I have had it highlighted to me by spending some time on Twitter. (Some-one I know is writing an original fic. They write wonderful fanfic, and I love their o-fic, so I thought: Let's see what else is out there now, what people are writing

[dawn_felagund]

I don't think that guilt, per se, explains the fanfic writer's attitude, but I do think that there is a connection between the two. I wonder if it's something to do with motive: We in the fanfic writing community write knowing full and well that our work will never be published. In terms of extrinsic rewards, the most we receive are positive comments, recs, or maybe an award nomination. Intrinsically, many of us also receive satisfaction from the deeper sense of community and conversation that our fanfic creates; I know many of us, for example, will write based on inspiration from another author's ideas or even to counter a perspective being put forward by another author. "Fame" in fandom can come about because a person is a good writer; it can also come about because the person is an astute analyst of the texts, generous with her time as a reviewer or beta, or a leader of fannish events or projects. In any case, it's much more oriented on collectivism and community

[spiced_wine]

To the contrary, when we fannish writers approach a story, I think we consider more if what we are writing communicates to our readers what we want it to, whether an insight on a character or commentary on something in the "canon."

Yes. I find it really strange, as I thought writers were writers were writers, but the writers within fanfic have a far different attitude, and a vast amount of what comes across as deep love for the characters they write of. Not that you can't love characters you write in o-fic, but usually in fanfic the love is for some-one else's creation that we just want to explore, for nothing, not for fame or money, but out of sheer love.

As for wimpiness. I view writing as looking up a flight of stairs. I see writers many steps above and know in my heart I can't get that far just because I've not go the intelligence or their gifts; I feel it's not ever possible to climb those stairs, but I am glad they're there because it shows me what can be done. Of course I feel that way when reading good original fiction, but

[dawn_felagund]

I love that analogy. You're totally right that seeing what other authors make possible can act as an inspiration and motivation to stretch one's creative wings a bit! :)

[pandemonium_213]

Your descriptions of "One of Those Guys" archetypes had me in stitches!

He insisted on calling, in every one of his pile of stories, female genitalia "the garden." He was always entering someone's "garden" amid much moisture and humidity.

OMG!

[dawn_felagund]

Admittedly, one of my few squicks are cutesy names for body parts. I think the only one worse is the common fannish "sheath" for vagina. *gags*

The porn pile was funny; my editor and I giggled over it often, and my sister and I, after I told her about it, made jokes about it for years after. I also vacillate between thinking "John" was either really creepy or really tone-deaf, based on the number of self-insert porns he felt it necessary to send to the journal. O.O

men tend to project more self-confidence than women, even if said guys may not feel all that confident if you really press them. And I note that the overly-confident writers you've chosen to describe are...men! :^)

Definitely! I've worked with few obnoxiously overconfident woman writers ... actually, only one comes immediately to mind, and given that I've worked with many more woman writers then male writers, I do think that is significant

[dawn_felagund]

Thank you, Pearl!

I do much, much better with gentle critiquing.

Possibly because on of my major involvements in a non-fannish writing community has been through the Critters workshop--and Andrew Burt, the leader of that group, requires diplomacy when offering critiques--I've come to see anything but diplomatic critique as self-defeating. I don't think there's ever a need for the kind of tone you describe; it immediately puts the writer on the defensive, and she/he stops being able to hear what the critic has to say. That's counterproductive, imo. If I take my time to offer a critique for a writer, I want her to be able to hear it well enough to maybe use it! :D

Of course, I realize that tone is common throughout the writing world. Just look at the reviews on ff.net. ;)

[oloriel]

It's certainly not universal by any stretch of the imagination, but it does often seem, in my experience anyway, that the overly confident writers don't have the skill that the wimps do.A while back, I overread someone who said something along the lines of "Not actually surprising: Good writers tend to have ambitious tastes and high expectations; they compare to the best, find themselves lacking, and thus work hard on improving themselves. The bad writers tend to have lower tastes and expectations. Accordingly, they compare themselves to those most like themselves, find themselves equal, and thus think they're already great..." No idea where or who that was, but it rang true. We are wimpy because we only ever orient upwards, and never trust ourselves to be good enough

[dawn_felagund]

We are wimpy because we only ever orient upwards, and never trust ourselves to be good enough...

Yes, well put! I know, when I reread something I've written, I have this ideal of what I want it to be. I don't even know if that ideal is attainable, but when it [inevitably] falls short, I keep picking at it and working at it.

The book is AWFUL.

This seems so often sadly the case of published fiction. I remember reading The Sword of Shannara for a class one time and thinking, "How did this crap even get published??" and the author went on to publish much more and, apparently, be well-respected enough in the fantasy genre that his book was being taught in university courses. :^| I was capable of doing better when I was in high school.

I mean, how often do I ask "How come this drivel is getting published while so many awesome fan writers I know don't get recognised?"You're right that most of us never do try. And sending stuff out is hard work. And rarely satisfying. The best publications often have acceptance rates around 1%, so they'

[oloriel]

For example, I'm reading A Game of Thrones right now, and while it's entertaining, it's not great writing.

I have to admit I didn't even find it entertaining - just frustrating. But that's a sleeping rant that'll wake up and get written some other time! I agree that I know many writers who could do waaay better in our (relatively small) fandom alone. I also suspect that GRRM is one of those Confident Guys and just manages to project his certainty outwards!

Of course, a rejection is a rejection, and most of us never know if a story was immediately discarded or something that the editor thought, "I can see publishing this, just not right now," or if the story was never even read at all.

Yup... and some of us live in such holy fear of rejection that we don't even bother in the first place. While someone else with (maybe) a healthier dose of self-regard does bother and might just fill a gap...