What Does America Mean To You?

[cahwyguy]

If someone was to ask me what America means in one word, I would say, “Freedom”. Freedom to say what you want to say. Freedom to believe what you want to believe. This is why America is the envy of other nations, and why extremist religious groups-of all ilks-hate us with a burning passion. This freedom that we have was hard fought, and we must

Comments

[geah]

You're calling Dr. Dean and Sen. Reid conservatives? How dare you!

[trinker]

I had the impression that anti-Semitism lost traction because of the Holocaust. Not so?

[cahwyguy]

Alas, no. Antisemitism is still alive and well today. Look at the work of the holocaust deniers, for example. You also periodically get outbreaks of the protocols. Check out the ADL website (http://www.adl.org/). You'll find regular reports of what is happening -- a lot of it being driven by countries like Iran these days.

(And I should note, reading the ADL website, that they indicate although there is the right to build the center there, they should ideally find an alternate location.)

[geah]

No one hates Jews more than Muslims. Heck, they allied themselves with Hitler, which is why we told them to STFU when Israel was created.

Anyway, "Why can’t the Conservatives see that if we give in on that, we’re doing just what the terrorists who attacked the tower would want us to do: curtail our freedoms in response to their attack."

You want us to curtail our freedom to protest against something we think is perfectly legal, but also perfectly inappropriate.

[cahwyguy]

I've never said not to be upset at the sensitivity of the matter, or to speak up on that aspect if it is how one feels. What I'm saying is wrong is the calls that the government should do something to stop it.

[anonymous]

Hate is SO Patriotic these days... look at all the American flags on Facebook protesting the mosque.

[geah]

"We haven’t yet had an accessible Islamic leader that can make Islam understood by the American people."

We understood the message Islam sends to the world on 9/11/01.

I've got an idea, how about if you and I go to Mecca and learn about Islam for ourselves. I'm sure the Religion of Peace™ will welcome you and I with open arms.

[cahwyguy]

We understood the message Islam sends to the world on 9/11/01.

No, you understood the message that a particular terrorist group sent on that day. I don't think you can claim it was the view of Islam, and all the various sects and movements thereof.

As for going to Mecca to learn about Islam, that's as silly a statement as saying one needs to go to Jerusalem to learn about Judaism. I'm sure that if you wanted to learn what Islam in America believes (which, of course, is what we are talking about), you could go to a local Islamic cultural center and just ask for information.

You cannot represent Islam as a whole by the actions of the extremist fringes therein, just as you can't represent Christianity by the fundamentalists that blew up the government facilities in Oklahoma City, or you can represent Judaism as a whole by some of the more fanatical settler groups.

[geah]

Okay, let's simplfy this.

If you and I went to Mecca, we would be killed due to our religion (or lack thereof). That's the way Muslims do it. Not the fringe. The guys at Headquarters. The people who set the rules for the religion. They're murderous.

If I went with a Muslim to Jerusalem to learn about Judaisim, we would both be welcome and safe.

Christianity and Oklahoma City have zero in common. Never did McVeigh invoke Christianity, and no Christians supported what he did for religious reasons. That is one of the all-time ridiculous straw men. I'm surprised at you.

[alohawolf]

Islam as a whole is about as centralized as Judaism as a whole, which means while there are Imams, preachers, priests, or rabbi's who will say just about anything to further their agenda, it makes it no more mainstream then any other fringe group, be it the settlers, the people who blow up abortion clinics, those folks who protest outside of peoples funerals, or for that matter those hijackers on that day.

I'm pro First Amendment, and a Gun Owner to boot, and I accept, because I have the freedom to do these things, I have to accept that other people can, and will do things I will not like, I call it the right to be offended, just because I dont like something, doesnt mean I cant tell you, that you cant do it.

[alohawolf]

I believe that the First Amendment is the cornerstone of our democratic republic, I believe that all the other amendments exist to protect that first one.

[geah]

Yes, and Americans are using their 1st Amendment right to express their displeasure with the Ground Zero Mosque. So, I take it you support their right to express their opinion?

[barnabas_truman]

As long as Congress isn't abridging your right to express displeasure, your First Amendment rights are not being violated.

Now what's so displeasing about it?

[cahwyguy]

I don't believe I've ever said you can't express your opinion (although at times I do get tired of it, but that's a different issue).

I can, however, express the wish that people would learn the facts behind their opinion, and would do some rational thinking. But that may be too much to ask. Perhaps Tommy Smothers captured the far too typical reaction best: "I'm an American. I don't have to see something to know that it's stupid."

My LJ friend chessdev put it this way: