What Does America Mean To You?

[cahwyguy]

If someone was to ask me what America means in one word, I would say, “Freedom”. Freedom to say what you want to say. Freedom to believe what you want to believe. This is why America is the envy of other nations, and why extremist religious groups-of all ilks-hate us with a burning passion. This freedom that we have was hard fought, and we must

Comments

[alohawolf]

I believe that the First Amendment is the cornerstone of our democratic republic, I believe that all the other amendments exist to protect that first one.

[geah]

Yes, and Americans are using their 1st Amendment right to express their displeasure with the Ground Zero Mosque. So, I take it you support their right to express their opinion?

[barnabas_truman]

As long as Congress isn't abridging your right to express displeasure, your First Amendment rights are not being violated.

Now what's so displeasing about it?

[cahwyguy]

I don't believe I've ever said you can't express your opinion (although at times I do get tired of it, but that's a different issue).

I can, however, express the wish that people would learn the facts behind their opinion, and would do some rational thinking. But that may be too much to ask. Perhaps Tommy Smothers captured the far too typical reaction best: "I'm an American. I don't have to see something to know that it's stupid."

My LJ friend chessdev put it this way:

[geah]

This clown won't even say he won't let it be funded by Iran:

Rauf said he'd seek funds from overseas to finance the $100 million project. But a mosque spokesman refused last week to say whether they'd reject money from the Holocaust-denying and nuclear-weapons-seeking Iranian government.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/ground_zero_imam_plays_hide_sheik_yRnITYOF2B0ZwVQeL3BOPP#ixzz0xLtOo4Fz

Do you seriously believe Iran would fund a Muslim cultural center designed to promote inter-faith dialog? If so, there's a bridge in the neighborhood that I'm dying to sell you.

[trinker]

If you want to give your claims any credibility, you really need to stop using the NY Post. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post According to a survey conducted by Pace University in 2004, the Post was rated the least-credible major news outlet in New York, and the only news outlet to receive more responses calling it "not credible" than credible (44% not credible to 39% credible).[35]

[geah]

Newsflash: Liberal university doesn't like competition for liberal newspaper.

Are you saying that story is inaccurate?

Here's the NY Daily News:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/20/2010-08-20_we_wont_build_it_hardhats_say_no_way_they_will_work_on_wtc_mosque.html

You're not getting it. Muslims killed lots of union brothers on that day.

[trinker]

Al Qaeda, or Wahabbi terrorists. Not "Muslims". Stop joining in with the terrorists.

Meanwhile, that link talks about *one guy* who's started a movement that's gained publicity, and is claiming numbers. Nothing substantial. I note the poll linked at that page shows substantial support (78% when I looked at it said "yes, no reason to oppose", 22% saying "no, don't build it") - for an article that's supposed to support your viewpoint on this, that's a poor showing, isn't it? Now, I do know that open Internet polls like that are subject to swamping by groups with a vested interest one way or another, but that's a pretty crazy skew.

I Guess This Is "Hate" In Your Closed Mind

[geah]

Louis Coletti, president of the Building Trades Employers' Association, said unions have not yet taken a "formal position" on Park51, but he understands why members would be hesitant to work there.

"It's a very difficult dilemma for the contractors and the organized labor force because we are experiencing such high levels of unemployment," he said. "Yet at the same time, this is a very sacred sight to the union guys."

"There were construction workers killed on 9/11 and many more who got horribly sick cleaning up Ground Zero," Coletti said. "It's very emotional."

Re: I Guess This Is "Hate" In Your Closed Mind

[trinker]

Given how much hateful rhetoric has been spewed about Park 51, I can see how anyone, pro or con that site, would be hesitant to work there! That site is now much more likely to be attacked by some "true American patriot".

Re: I Guess This Is "Hate" In Your Closed Mind

[geah]

Your hatred of America has no bounds, it seems. Sad.

Re: I Guess This Is "Hate" In Your Closed Mind

[cahwyguy]

Don - I'm going to call you on this one. The post was mine originally; therefore, this is my forum -- and I operate it under rules like I operated my mailing list. In short: it is acceptable to criticize and discuss ideas. It is not acceptable to move to the level of personal invictive. In other words, don't go personally insulting the participants in the discussion.

[I'm also not that enamored with your habit of taking a discussion and moving it in the direction you want, not the direction that the post originally intended, but I've gotten used to that. The focus of this point was more the general islamophobia that has arisen (it's even made the cover of Time, which I plan to read on my flight tomorrow). I don't know if you are against all muslims, or just those in New York. I certainly haven't seen you out protesting the Islamic Cultural Center on Tampa here in the valley.]

Re: I Guess This Is "Hate" In Your Closed Mind

[geah]

[ahem]

I get called a bigot in this discussion, but I guess that doesn't count.

I don't take any discussion anywhere. I don't even have any idea how to do that. I just follow it where it takes me.

"I don't know if you are against all muslims"

Seriously, seriously beneath you. You should be ashamed of yourself. Very, very disappointing. "It is not acceptable to move to the level of personal invictive. In other words, don't go personally insulting the participants in the discussion."

"I certainly haven't seen you out protesting the Islamic Cultural Center on Tampa here in the valley."

Buy a clue. It's 100% appropriate there. That's why no one cares. If the opponents were "bigots" as you guys love to claim, then there would be protests at every mosque. There's not. The problem is this one is outrageously inappropriate, and 70% of Americans get something that flies right over your head.

Re: I Guess This Is "Hate" In Your Closed Mind

[trinker]

I love my country. I love the principles it stands for.

I have a strong dislike of the nativist masses who want to subvert what's good about this country into a sick parody of itself, into a nation of Christian supremacists.

[alohawolf]

oh, totally, however, I think that the people who want to build the mosque, have a right to do so, and on some level should, we as a culture need to be more tolerant.

I feel much the same about people who wish to wear Islamic grab, we should make it clear, that they are not required to, and they would fit better in American Society if they do not, but as we are a country that treasures personal freedom, they are welcome to wear it if they want.

[geah]

How about if the builders of the mosque be more sensitive to the widely bi-partisan objection to the Ground Zero Mosque?

America is far, far more tolerant than any Muslim-dominated country. Far more.