What Does America Mean To You?

[cahwyguy]

If someone was to ask me what America means in one word, I would say, “Freedom”. Freedom to say what you want to say. Freedom to believe what you want to believe. This is why America is the envy of other nations, and why extremist religious groups-of all ilks-hate us with a burning passion. This freedom that we have was hard fought, and we must

Comments

Who's funding the campaign against Park 51?

[trinker]

http://sinboy.livejournal.com/1192389.html

Re: Who's funding the campaign against Park 51?

[geah]

Who's funding the building? It could be Iran. The promoter of the building won't rule Iran out.

Re: Who's funding the campaign against Park 51?

[trinker]

You're happy fanning the flames started by a bunch of white supremacists? Surely not.

[geah]

Here's why these conversations get out of hand:

Person #1: "I think that building a Mosque in one of the buildings damaged by an attack by Muslim extremists is insensitive and inappropriate."

Person #2: "You're a hate-filled bigot who thinks all Muslims are terrorists."

Where exactly do you expect the conversation to go from there?

[cahwyguy]

Don: You're always pointing out articles to me. Please read this analysis from the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-0823-mosque-muslim-react-20100823,0,7775670.story

I think this was the point that I was getting at. There are things worth arguing about: important things that affect the direction of our country. The tarring of a religion completely based on the activities of small terrorist groups is something we shouldn't be doing. How the debate on this center has flared up is just an example. Let's argue how to turn our economy around; let's argue about what services government should provide, and how it should pay for those services.

You seem to do a good job in these discussions of arguing what you're against. But what are you for? What do you think the positive steps and images we must portray are? Let's see some postings from you stating your thoughts on the issues,

[geah]

Indeed, some say it's a bad idea to construct the building so close to the site of the twin towers, whose fiery destruction at the hands of 19 Muslim extremists is etched into the minds of people all over the world.

"Building a mosque there will increase hatred between Muslims and non-Muslims in the West," said Gamal Awad, a professor at Cairo's Al Azhar University. "It will further connect Islam with a horrible event."Damn, I hate bigoted white supremacists like Gamal Awad

[trinker]

Nice rhetorical trick, there.

Let's elide the other bits in between...like, say, the ones that go, "why do you think it's inappropriate?"
"because Islam is a religion of hate and violence"
"you're conflating a few extremists with the entirety of the adherents"
"Islam by definition is..."
"this group isn't even a part of mainline Islam"
"In extremist Islamic countries..."
.
.
.
"your points reflect those of a hate-filled bigot who thinks all Muslims are terrorists."

[trinker]

I wonder how often "Fair and Balanced(tm)" media outlets give any real weight and respect to the opposition?

There's this accusation that the NYT is completely partisan. But they publish opposing viewpoints in a lot of articles. How does that work, again?

Closer to the original topic:

Those in Osama bin Laden's Wahabbi school consider the Sufism espoused by Abdul Rauf a degenerate form of the religion. And in April, Iraqi authorities said they uncovered a Sept. 11-style Al Qaeda plot to fly planes into mosques revered by Shiite Muslims in the cities of Najaf and Karbala, underscoring the disdain the extremist network holds for Muslims who don't adhere to its puritanical Sunni brand of Islam.
So...Abdul Rauf's considered degenerate by Osama bin Laden. But that's not good enough for people who want to say that Park 51 would mean Al Qaeda winning

[barnabas_truman]

Complaints that newspapers have a liberal bias are a vast right-wing conspiracy intended to force moderate newspapers more towards the right.

[trinker]

Between that and the way that the Democratic party leadership has been actively throwing away any advantage to be gained by having had a voter mandate...

AAAGH.

Bile From "Mr. Bridge Builder"

[geah]

The patriots need to get the tar and feathers together.

http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/article/new-tape-of-feisal-abdul-rauf-could-add-to-ground-zero-mosque-controversy/19605145

"We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al-Qaida has on its hands of innocent non-Muslims."

Yes, yes. We're worse than al Qaeda. Hey, screw you!

Re: Bile From "Mr. Bridge Builder"

[barnabas_truman]

"We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al-Qaida has on its hands of innocent non-Muslims."

Actually, if we're talking about sheer number of deaths caused, I think he may be right about this. Can you back up your disagreement with evidence, or are violent threats and "Hey, screw you!" your idea of a rational counterargument?

Re: Bile From "Mr. Bridge Builder"

[geah]

[sigh]

You get it, but you don't.

You get that he made a false comparison--"Muslim blood" to "innocent non-Muslims," but you don't seem to be the least bit concerned that he's using that false comparison to make the US look bad and to minimize the mayhem that al Qaeda engages in.

Try this one: Between Serbia, Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States has liberated 75 million Muslim. al Qaeda has liberated no one anywhere in the world.

[trinker]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-23-2010/the-parent-company-trap

Follow the money, they said...