Through Sam’s pleading hand gestures, Dean lightly hitting Sam with the back of his hand, and Sam grabbing Dean’s arm, we see Sam’s attitude change from hopeful insistence to irritated frustration and Dean’s move from jokingly flippant to dismissive. Watch the scene without sound and you’d still be able to discern the overall dynamic: which character is being evasive, which character wants something the other won’t give, which character grows frustrated, etc. The result: increased tension and an overt power struggle.
It was interesting to think about the various ways that touch is used between the characters. I know someone did an analysis of how Dean uses touch, and it'll be interesting to see how Sam uses it and compare.
Let’s all take a moment to sing the praises of Kim Manners’ directorial talents. *pause*I will gladly do so because it's well deserved. However in this particular example it's a standard shot in terms of filming both actors simultaneously during
( ... )
I know someone did an analysis of how Dean uses touch, and it'll be interesting to see how Sam uses it and compare.
That's curious that you bring this up because this meta was going to be about "Sam touch" originally. I was centering it around the screencap of Sam grabbing Dean's arm and was going to look at how, when, and why Sam aggressively touched Dean and how that may reflect their S1-S3 role reversals.
However, this meta took a left turn and I ended up exploiting a tangent that turned out to be what you just read. I have my original ideas stored away for another meta. Although I won't be doing any statistical analysis (I'm guessing this is the meta you're talking about), I'm also curious what a "Sam touch" study would yield. There's so much material in this fandom it's hard to concentrate on just one thing, isn't it? :)
The decision to switch from one POV to the other is the editor's (and boy can a crappy editor screw up a show). So while the director generally leaves notes and must plan for the shots to be includedYes,
( ... )
That's curious that you bring this up because this meta was going to be about "Sam touch" originally.
Hee! Well I look forward to what you come up with. I agree that that the arm grab is a move that I hadn't noticed in my viewings of the episode, but it's an interesting counter to the "parental" actions you noticed in Dean. And yes, your link was the one I was remembering.
usually doesn't notice unless it's poorly doneI think that's really true. One can usually notice directing choices in terms of staging or nifty camera moves (such as the various shots of Dean as he exited the house in the beginning of the ep). But all those "intuitive" transitions, the holding of a frame for however long, and blending together of various elements all create the pace of the show too (not to mention what gets cut if something runs long
( ... )
but one thing I found really eye opening was seeing the dailies of a show ... By comparison to the final scene a lot of these takes seemed flat, whereas by moving back and forth from different distances and POVs it seemed focused and dynamic in its final form.
Oh, that is so interesting! Editing seems like such a creative (and almost overwhelming) process to me. Of course, the director's vision and storyboards act as sign posts, but actually assembling the takes and tweaking things when they don't work (or making things work when there's little to work with) seems incredibly challenging. If you don't mind me asking, what's your capacity in the entertainment industry (eyeballing dailies)?
I was surprised to discover in the AHBL2 documentary was that they apparently storyboard episodes. When I was watching SPN's S2 DVD's I kept pausing it so I could see the storyboards because I was so surprised that they took the time to make them. I have no idea if that's normally done for TV shows either, but I think yours reasons are very
( ... )
Believe me, it was my pleasure. Watching this scene was definitely not torture. *big grin*
I don't know a whole lot about cinematography either so no worries. Dabbling is fun and for fandom perfectly acceptable (at least that's what I tell myself when I'm confused about cinematography terminology).
Thanks so much for reading and dropping me a note. :)
Oh, wow! You have put a lot of thought into this and included things I hadn't even noticed. I'm sorry I don't have the time to contribute to a proper in-depth discussion, but you did a wonderful job here!
“We’re not going and that’s that”
I love how Dean goes all parental on Sam. It's such a small glimpse, but Dean says it with this firm, patient tone that he probably had to use a lot with Sammy. And Sam actually pipes down until Dean makes a joke about the situation. Also, the way they are both shot from the side supports the confrontation nicely. I get flashbacks to Dead Man's Blood where Sam confronts John and Dean breaks it up...
Caps 4, 5, & 6. If I were to sum up Sam and Dean S3 in three screencaps I would use these.
That's a pretty good prediction. Sam will plot behind Dean's back like that last cap suggests, and Dean initiates their hunts adventures, trying to avoid the truth about their situation (like in caps 4&5).
What does one do when the person you’re trying to protect refuses to be protected?That's a good question
( ... )
And Sam actually pipes down until Dean makes a joke about the situation.
Wow, he does ... just like a little kid (or a baby brother). Good catch! I think Dean's jokes grate on Sam under normal circumstances, but more than anything else Dean is doing (or not doing) about this demon deal, it's the jokes and the Dean's light-heartedness about dying that set Sam off. I think that Sam knows that deep down Dean doesn't want to die and he's trying to niggle that out of him. I bet there's going to be a huge confrontation near the middle of the season where Sam just lays it all out and finally gets Dean to admit that he doesn't want to go to hell. Angst! *rubs hands in anticipation*
I get flashbacks to Dead Man's Blood where Sam confronts John and Dean breaks it up...That was one of my favorite scenes in S1. It just said so much about the Winchester dynamic. I wonder if we'll get a S3 version of that scene with Dean and Sam squaring off and Bobby refereeing. Oh, imagine the number
( ... )
I wonder if we'll get a S3 version of that scene with Dean and Sam squaring off and Bobby refereeing.
I can't even begin to tell you how freakin' awesome that would be! There have been these repeated scenes and visual images throughout the series (e.g. the 'Sam surprises Dean in the middle of the night' scene in Pilot and WIAWSNB), and that one would make an excellent addition. *adds it to the wish list*
Plus my silly meta list keeps getting longer and longer.
Tell me about it! There are these little ideas and theories that just beg the attention. Unfortunately, I may have to skip doing meta as it requires a lot of thinking and researching and coherency... At least with fics there may be odd bursts of creativity which don't require that much work. ;)
I can't even begin to tell you how freakin' awesome that would be!
It would! Heh, maybe we can wish our scene into being with our crazy brain powerz ... you know, like tulpas. *snortlaugh* ;)
Unfortunately, I may have to skip doing meta...
*small voice* nooooooooooooooooooooo....
as it requires a lot of thinking and researching and coherency... At least with fics there may be odd bursts of creativity which don't require that much work. ;)
I'm the exact opposite! Metas somehow require less work than fics for me. Fics always end turning into these huge, overwhelming projects that require a lot of brain power. I get hung up on plotting and motivation and just run out of steam. I was trying to do one shots a while back, but ... erghfm. Anyway, keep pumping out your fics! Do you have any plans for a multi-chaptered fic? Just asking. :)
Thanks for dropping in! I'm glad you found this interesting; I certainly found breaking down that scene to be thought provoking. When I was doing it, I had no idea where it would end up ... I'm just happy that it seemed somewhat coherent. :)
I'm friending you
Oh, wonderful! I love new friends. I'll friend you back. Don't be shy about dropping in on convos and such, nobody here bites.
This is the second time I've come back to your article; it has really caused a great deal of thought, confirming some things I was feeling about the changed relationship betw D & S, especially how the blocking lowered S's physical height to equal D. Of course, the movement kept the scene dynamic, while saying heaps. I've enjoyed chewing all this over so much, it's slightly (ok, heaps) ridiculous.
And the best thing, I kinda feel like this sort of though/ discussion legitamises my obsession with Supernatural. Justifying the shame, lol. Ruby
I'm so glad that this inspired some thoughts and was worthy of a couple of read-throughs. To be honest, chatting with people and hearing about others' insights is why I enjoy fandom; it's why I bother to scribble meta at all. :) Thank you for saying such because it really makes my day when I hear that someone somewhere is thinking about the show in a smiliar manner (which ties in with your statement below).
I kinda feel like this sort of though/ discussion legitamises my obsession with Supernatural. Justifying the shame, lol.
Everyone's a little crazy in their own way (and if not, it's called "boring" *wink*), believe me there are much worse things to be obsessed with than a harmless TV show with pretty boys. I'm a secret fandom-dork, but I've learned to embrace my inner spazgeek, and since then it's been pretty fun. Justify the shame away. You're definitely not alone. :)
Comments 29
This caught my attention
Through Sam’s pleading hand gestures, Dean lightly hitting Sam with the back of his hand, and Sam grabbing Dean’s arm, we see Sam’s attitude change from hopeful insistence to irritated frustration and Dean’s move from jokingly flippant to dismissive. Watch the scene without sound and you’d still be able to discern the overall dynamic: which character is being evasive, which character wants something the other won’t give, which character grows frustrated, etc. The result: increased tension and an overt power struggle.
It was interesting to think about the various ways that touch is used between the characters. I know someone did an analysis of how Dean uses touch, and it'll be interesting to see how Sam uses it and compare.
Let’s all take a moment to sing the praises of Kim Manners’ directorial talents. *pause*I will gladly do so because it's well deserved. However in this particular example it's a standard shot in terms of filming both actors simultaneously during ( ... )
Reply
That's curious that you bring this up because this meta was going to be about "Sam touch" originally. I was centering it around the screencap of Sam grabbing Dean's arm and was going to look at how, when, and why Sam aggressively touched Dean and how that may reflect their S1-S3 role reversals.
However, this meta took a left turn and I ended up exploiting a tangent that turned out to be what you just read. I have my original ideas stored away for another meta. Although I won't be doing any statistical analysis (I'm guessing this is the meta you're talking about), I'm also curious what a "Sam touch" study would yield. There's so much material in this fandom it's hard to concentrate on just one thing, isn't it? :)
The decision to switch from one POV to the other is the editor's (and boy can a crappy editor screw up a show). So while the director generally leaves notes and must plan for the shots to be includedYes, ( ... )
Reply
Hee! Well I look forward to what you come up with. I agree that that the arm grab is a move that I hadn't noticed in my viewings of the episode, but it's an interesting counter to the "parental" actions you noticed in Dean. And yes, your link was the one I was remembering.
usually doesn't notice unless it's poorly doneI think that's really true. One can usually notice directing choices in terms of staging or nifty camera moves (such as the various shots of Dean as he exited the house in the beginning of the ep). But all those "intuitive" transitions, the holding of a frame for however long, and blending together of various elements all create the pace of the show too (not to mention what gets cut if something runs long ( ... )
Reply
Oh, that is so interesting! Editing seems like such a creative (and almost overwhelming) process to me. Of course, the director's vision and storyboards act as sign posts, but actually assembling the takes and tweaking things when they don't work (or making things work when there's little to work with) seems incredibly challenging. If you don't mind me asking, what's your capacity in the entertainment industry (eyeballing dailies)?
I was surprised to discover in the AHBL2 documentary was that they apparently storyboard episodes. When I was watching SPN's S2 DVD's I kept pausing it so I could see the storyboards because I was so surprised that they took the time to make them. I have no idea if that's normally done for TV shows either, but I think yours reasons are very ( ... )
Reply
Reply
I don't know a whole lot about cinematography either so no worries. Dabbling is fun and for fandom perfectly acceptable (at least that's what I tell myself when I'm confused about cinematography terminology).
Thanks so much for reading and dropping me a note. :)
Reply
“We’re not going and that’s that”
I love how Dean goes all parental on Sam. It's such a small glimpse, but Dean says it with this firm, patient tone that he probably had to use a lot with Sammy. And Sam actually pipes down until Dean makes a joke about the situation. Also, the way they are both shot from the side supports the confrontation nicely. I get flashbacks to Dead Man's Blood where Sam confronts John and Dean breaks it up...
Caps 4, 5, & 6. If I were to sum up Sam and Dean S3 in three screencaps I would use these.
That's a pretty good prediction. Sam will plot behind Dean's back like that last cap suggests, and Dean initiates their hunts adventures, trying to avoid the truth about their situation (like in caps 4&5).
What does one do when the person you’re trying to protect refuses to be protected?That's a good question ( ... )
Reply
And Sam actually pipes down until Dean makes a joke about the situation.
Wow, he does ... just like a little kid (or a baby brother). Good catch! I think Dean's jokes grate on Sam under normal circumstances, but more than anything else Dean is doing (or not doing) about this demon deal, it's the jokes and the Dean's light-heartedness about dying that set Sam off. I think that Sam knows that deep down Dean doesn't want to die and he's trying to niggle that out of him. I bet there's going to be a huge confrontation near the middle of the season where Sam just lays it all out and finally gets Dean to admit that he doesn't want to go to hell. Angst! *rubs hands in anticipation*
I get flashbacks to Dead Man's Blood where Sam confronts John and Dean breaks it up...That was one of my favorite scenes in S1. It just said so much about the Winchester dynamic. I wonder if we'll get a S3 version of that scene with Dean and Sam squaring off and Bobby refereeing. Oh, imagine the number ( ... )
Reply
I wonder if we'll get a S3 version of that scene with Dean and Sam squaring off and Bobby refereeing.
I can't even begin to tell you how freakin' awesome that would be! There have been these repeated scenes and visual images throughout the series (e.g. the 'Sam surprises Dean in the middle of the night' scene in Pilot and WIAWSNB), and that one would make an excellent addition. *adds it to the wish list*
Plus my silly meta list keeps getting longer and longer.
Tell me about it! There are these little ideas and theories that just beg the attention. Unfortunately, I may have to skip doing meta as it requires a lot of thinking and researching and coherency... At least with fics there may be odd bursts of creativity which don't require that much work. ;)
Reply
It would! Heh, maybe we can wish our scene into being with our crazy brain powerz ... you know, like tulpas. *snortlaugh* ;)
Unfortunately, I may have to skip doing meta...
*small voice* nooooooooooooooooooooo....
as it requires a lot of thinking and researching and coherency... At least with fics there may be odd bursts of creativity which don't require that much work. ;)
I'm the exact opposite! Metas somehow require less work than fics for me. Fics always end turning into these huge, overwhelming projects that require a lot of brain power. I get hung up on plotting and motivation and just run out of steam. I was trying to do one shots a while back, but ... erghfm. Anyway, keep pumping out your fics! Do you have any plans for a multi-chaptered fic? Just asking. :)
Reply
Thanks for all the thought-provoking interpretations.
ps. I'm friending you - I like interesting, and this was exactly that.
Reply
I'm friending you
Oh, wonderful! I love new friends. I'll friend you back. Don't be shy about dropping in on convos and such, nobody here bites.
Reply
And the best thing, I kinda feel like this sort of though/ discussion legitamises my obsession with Supernatural. Justifying the shame, lol.
Ruby
Reply
I kinda feel like this sort of though/ discussion legitamises my obsession with Supernatural. Justifying the shame, lol.
Everyone's a little crazy in their own way (and if not, it's called "boring" *wink*), believe me there are much worse things to be obsessed with than a harmless TV show with pretty boys. I'm a secret fandom-dork, but I've learned to embrace my inner spazgeek, and since then it's been pretty fun. Justify the shame away. You're definitely not alone. :)
Reply
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